Real or imaginary

Frank · 10-19-2013, 12:30 PM

Greetings Luger Nuts!!

Please take a look at these two magazines. They are reported to belong to a 41 byf Luger.

The are they original? If not, why not.

jussi16 · 10-19-2013, 12:58 PM

The numbers do not look correct. And stamped over a dent.

mrerick · 10-19-2013, 06:10 PM

Frank, I don't like the smaller "2" digit. I've never seen a legitimate factory numbered magazine with digits with varying size.

There looks to be grinding grain on the "v" surface of the right hand one, and rounded edges on the left one "v+" surface.

tharpo · 10-20-2013, 01:12 AM

Here is a 1941 byf magazine produced not long before the mags in question. Compare the font on the 2 and the 3. Originals had flat top 3's.

Sergio Natali · 10-20-2013, 08:01 AM

I'm not too sure about the flat top "3", still the smaller "2" digit wouldn't convince me at all.

John Sabato · 10-20-2013, 10:19 PM

All great observations guys... but in the photographs posted, there is one other major difference that I see.

The sheet metal of the magazine tubes as seen from the bottom, appear to be two different thicknesses.

If these magazines came out of Mauser manufacturing at the same time, they would likely have been made from the same lot of sheet metal which would have been a uniform thickness. One of these magazines is a different manufacturing vintage than the other IMHO.

Okay Frank... tell us if we missed anything...

Sergio Natali · 10-21-2013, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

All great observations guys... but in the photographs posted, there is one other major difference that I see.

The sheet metal of the magazine tubes as seen from the bottom, appear to be two different thicknesses.

If these magazines came out of Mauser manufacturing at the same time, they would likely have been made from the same lot of sheet metal which would have been a uniform thickness. One of these magazines is a different manufacturing vintage than the other IMHO.

Okay Frank... tell us if we missed anything...

Goodness, now you have pointed it out I think you must be right, I never noticed that!

JTD · 10-21-2013, 11:39 AM

By the v block, were'nt the bakalite bottomed, unnumbered, FXO type mag in use?

Frank · 10-21-2013, 03:26 PM

Okay Guys, you did pretty darn good.

Jussi16 – Good Catch!!
mrerick – The smaller “2” was a dead give-away
Tom – The fonts were all wrong
John – I missed the sheet thickness; Good eyes
JTD - Some V-Block were Police Pistols, so they could be aluminum. Otherwise you are right about the plastic bottom

Additional Errors:
I thought someone would comment about the messed up “+” sign. I have seen them crooked, but I can’t recall seeing double strikes!

The vertical position of the “v” should be the same in both magazines.

Okay John?

John Sabato · 10-21-2013, 03:43 PM

This was a great quiz Frank... Kudos on your selection for a learning tool...

You should do quizzes like this more often. Any of the old timers with a specific example of Luger characteristics should do the same. It is how we can pass on our lifetime of study to the next generation of collectors.

I think the quizzes like this intrigue both old timers, and new collectors who want to learn.

Thanks from us all.

regarding these mags and your comments...

I have seen double strikes leave the factory, but now that you mention it, I can't say for sure I have ever seen one on a magazine.

Even on the photo of the magazine shown by tharpo, the "plus" sign is not uniform. Looks like it was created with two strikes of a straight line tool...

(BTW folks, FRANK seldom asks questions he doesn't already know the answer to!

--- if you have questions on Mausers, direct your questions to him...he is one of the few who will know the answers...)

10-19-2013, 12:30 PM	#1
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Real or imaginary Greetings Luger Nuts!! Please take a look at these two magazines. They are reported to belong to a 41 byf Luger. The are they original? If not, why not. Attached Thumbnails

10-19-2013, 06:10 PM	#3
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Frank, I don't like the smaller "2" digit. I've never seen a legitimate factory numbered magazine with digits with varying size. There looks to be grinding grain on the "v" surface of the right hand one, and rounded edges on the left one "v+" surface. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

10-20-2013, 01:12 AM	#4
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 537 Thanks: 116 Thanked 376 Times in 154 Posts	Here is a 1941 byf magazine produced not long before the mags in question. Compare the font on the 2 and the 3. Originals had flat top 3's. Attached Thumbnails

10-20-2013, 08:01 AM	#5
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I'm not too sure about the flat top "3", still the smaller "2" digit wouldn't convince me at all. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

10-20-2013, 10:19 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	All great observations guys... but in the photographs posted, there is one other major difference that I see. The sheet metal of the magazine tubes as seen from the bottom, appear to be two different thicknesses. If these magazines came out of Mauser manufacturing at the same time, they would likely have been made from the same lot of sheet metal which would have been a uniform thickness. One of these magazines is a different manufacturing vintage than the other IMHO. Okay Frank... tell us if we missed anything... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-19-2013, 12:58 PM	#2
jussi16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 250 Thanks: 77 Thanked 51 Times in 31 Posts	The numbers do not look correct. And stamped over a dent.

10-21-2013, 11:39 AM	#8
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 424 Thanks: 215 Thanked 407 Times in 148 Posts	By the v block, were'nt the bakalite bottomed, unnumbered, FXO type mag in use?

10-21-2013, 03:26 PM	#9
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Okay Guys, you did pretty darn good. Jussi16 – Good Catch!! mrerick – The smaller “2” was a dead give-away Tom – The fonts were all wrong John – I missed the sheet thickness; Good eyes JTD - Some V-Block were Police Pistols, so they could be aluminum. Otherwise you are right about the plastic bottom Additional Errors: I thought someone would comment about the messed up “+” sign. I have seen them crooked, but I can’t recall seeing double strikes! The vertical position of the “v” should be the same in both magazines. Okay John?

10-21-2013, 03:43 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	This was a great quiz Frank... Kudos on your selection for a learning tool... You should do quizzes like this more often. Any of the old timers with a specific example of Luger characteristics should do the same. It is how we can pass on our lifetime of study to the next generation of collectors. I think the quizzes like this intrigue both old timers, and new collectors who want to learn. Thanks from us all. regarding these mags and your comments... I have seen double strikes leave the factory, but now that you mention it, I can't say for sure I have ever seen one on a magazine. Even on the photo of the magazine shown by tharpo, the "plus" sign is not uniform. Looks like it was created with two strikes of a straight line tool... (BTW folks, FRANK seldom asks questions he doesn't already know the answer to! --- if you have questions on Mausers, direct your questions to him...he is one of the few who will know the answers...) __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*