1916 DWM and 1906 pattern Portuguese Army Luger with holsters

kk5fe · 04-03-2013, 12:23 AM

Hey all! I'm just posting these for the fun of it. I'll be putting a couple others I have later...

First up is something I'll need help in an ID. I'm pretty sure its a DWM police, but I'm not sure of the country or age. Swiss maybe? This one has the original holster I believe and a cleaning rod/oiler plus a little pick? and is .30 with a bit longer barrel than the miitary ones that I have.... Grip safety. All numbers match.
Again, I'm learning!

Anyway here is Luger #1!

And Luger #2 which is a DWM 1916. All numbers match. The holster may or may not have come with the Luger. There is a faint date stamped in the inside lid of the holster of 1914. I also have a seperate magazine pouch. The leather on this has seen better days... its got lots of cracks.

lugerholsterrepair · 04-03-2013, 12:58 AM

Your first Luger is a Portuguese. Manual 2 was the king? These were somewhere in the timeframe of 1936 or so. The double magazine pouch you show with your 1916 Luger is Portuguese as well.

kk5fe · 04-03-2013, 01:23 AM

Thanks! Portuguese? I have so much to learn.....

So would this be for Police or for the public?

lugersrkewl · 04-03-2013, 01:58 AM

I believe its a commercial contract with dwm made for the portugese army . I dont know diddly about holsters. I wonder if Mr.Burney can tell us how he knew its a portugese mag pouch? Nice rare pistol looks matched and original?
thanks for posting pics

Ron Wood · 04-03-2013, 02:59 AM

As Jerry Burney has indicated, your first pistol is a fairly nice example of the Model 1906 pattern Portuguese Army Luger. The inscription on the chamber is for Manuel II, the monarch of Portugal just before it became a republic around 1935. The contract for this pistol was in 1908 and consisted of 5000 guns. If the magazine in your gun is an original, it will have no number and will be marked with a triangle in a circle like the mark on the left receiver, barrel and rear of the frame of the pistol.

The holster is correct for the gun. Also the cleaning rod and pin punch are the correct type for the M2 Portuguese. The AE on the back of the holster is the designation for “Arsenal do Exercito” (Army Arsenal in Lisbon Portugal). The double magazine pouch with your 1916 is, as Jerry stated, very likely a Portuguese pouch and belongs with the M2 Luger and holster. It is nearly identical to the German navy pouch, and I suspect that if you look closely you probably will find an AE marking on the inside of the flap.

You have a quite collectable contract Luger from the early years. Congratulations.

kk5fe · 04-03-2013, 07:36 AM

Ron, I am in awe of the info you shared here.

To answer those questions, yes the mag pouch does in fact have the AE stamp on the inside of the flap. I don't know how I missed that except I wasn't looking for it.

As for the magazine in the pistol, it is an original type with the wood plug at the bottom and doesn't have any number on it. However even after looking at it carefully I could not find any proof mark. If they always put the proof on the mag, then it may have been swapped at some point in its life.

Anyway, thanks again to all!

ithacaartist · 04-03-2013, 11:09 AM

Keith,

The "little pick" is a pin punch, used to remove appropriate-sized pins on the pistol, i.e. toggle axle retaining pin, extractor retention pin, etc. Originals are obviously worth more than repros, and it could come in handy sometime.

kk5fe · 04-03-2013, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Keith,

The "little pick" is a pin punch, used to remove appropriate-sized pins on the pistol, i.e. toggle axle retaining pin, extractor retention pin, etc. Originals are obviously worth more than repros, and it could come in handy sometime.

Well, this is one of those slap your forehead moments.... I own several 1911's and tinker with them. I have a set of punches I use for them. I should have figured that.
Unfortunatly, this would have been complete if I had the loading tool...
Thanks for the info!

kk5fe · 04-03-2013, 01:33 PM

Another question.... is there a way I can tell from the stamped numbers and letters in the 1914 holster what unit that came from? I'm asuming thats what it is.

alanint · 04-03-2013, 02:18 PM

Yes, the Regimental guys will Chime in on this. It looks like the 1st. Jager Regiment, 21st. Company, pistol number 14?

abukafura · 04-03-2013, 02:33 PM

Actually it is a Weimar marking that translates to 1st Company, 21st Regt, weapon 14.

Douglas Jr. · 04-04-2013, 08:27 AM

Just slight correction about the time frame of the Portuguese Luger.

As Ron correctly said, these pistols were purchased around 1908 for the Portuguese Army. At that time, Portugal was a Kingdom, and Manuel II (1889-1932) was its ruler. He had become king when his father (Carlos I) and older brother (Luis Felipe) were shot and killed by two anarchists on February 1st, 1908.

However, Manuel II rule was short: a coup d'etat followed in October, 1910 and Portugal became a Republic. That's why some of the Navy portuguese Lugers bear the king Manuel II anagram and others has R.P. (Republica Portuguesa) over the chamber, as the political change occurred during the delivery of such guns.

Nice pistols and thanks for sharing.

Douglas.

Ron Wood · 04-04-2013, 11:04 AM

Thanks for the correction Douglas! At my age relying on memory doesn't always come up with the right details.

Cleburne · 04-04-2013, 11:21 PM

Beautiful pistols Keith! Your dad knew how to pick 'em.

kk5fe · 04-05-2013, 12:57 AM

He sure did! I just wish I would have paid more attention to them while he was still with us.....

but I'm learning now.

Geo99 · 04-05-2013, 01:58 AM

Beautiful Portuguese Luger rig - seen a few beat up ones, but hard to find in that nice original condition, especially with the entire rig. A keeper for sure!

-Geo

LugerVern · 04-06-2013, 12:01 PM

Really like those Portuguese lugers

Thanks for posting your M2

Vern

kk5fe · 05-11-2013, 06:18 PM

Just an update to my post....

First a question on the Portuguese pistol. I took it apart today for a total cleaning and oiling and while all the major parts have the same number, I found the grip saftey lever had another number. Does anyone know if that part should have the same number, or is the number stamped on it something else. I have a feeling I already know the answer to this....

The other this is just a pleasent surprise on the 1916 luger. While I had it apart once before just to check things out, I hadnt noticed until today when I stripped it like the other one and found that the grips and magazine also have the same serial number stamped on them! I really have no idea how I missed the mag. To bad the wood plug is cracked... but it is a great thing to have it match!

Jerry · 05-15-2013, 09:07 AM

Just out of curiosity what would the value be on the M-2 marked luger? Interesting piece!

kk5fe · 05-15-2013, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

Just out of curiosity what would the value be on the M-2 marked luger? Interesting piece!

I don't know how good gunbroker is on prices. I saw one very similar to mine with the holster and mag holder that sold for $1800. While not many we're made, I won't be retired any time soon with it...

Anyway this one will be staying with me for a while.

04-03-2013, 02:59 AM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	As Jerry Burney has indicated, your first pistol is a fairly nice example of the Model 1906 pattern Portuguese Army Luger. The inscription on the chamber is for Manuel II, the monarch of Portugal just before it became a republic around 1935. The contract for this pistol was in 1908 and consisted of 5000 guns. If the magazine in your gun is an original, it will have no number and will be marked with a triangle in a circle like the mark on the left receiver, barrel and rear of the frame of the pistol. The holster is correct for the gun. Also the cleaning rod and pin punch are the correct type for the M2 Portuguese. The AE on the back of the holster is the designation for “Arsenal do Exercito” (Army Arsenal in Lisbon Portugal). The double magazine pouch with your 1916 is, as Jerry stated, very likely a Portuguese pouch and belongs with the M2 Luger and holster. It is nearly identical to the German navy pouch, and I suspect that if you look closely you probably will find an AE marking on the inside of the flap. You have a quite collectable contract Luger from the early years. Congratulations. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-03-2013, 11:09 AM	#7
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,368 Thanks: 7,432 Thanked 2,611 Times in 1,378 Posts	Keith, The "little pick" is a pin punch, used to remove appropriate-sized pins on the pistol, i.e. toggle axle retaining pin, extractor retention pin, etc. Originals are obviously worth more than repros, and it could come in handy sometime. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

04-04-2013, 11:04 AM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	Thanks for the correction Douglas! At my age relying on memory doesn't always come up with the right details. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

05-15-2013, 09:07 AM	#19
Jerry Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 126 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Just out of curiosity what would the value be on the M-2 marked luger? Interesting piece! __________________ Jerry

04-03-2013, 12:23 AM	#1
kk5fe User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Orleans Posts: 29 Thanks: 6 Thanked 19 Times in 4 Posts	1916 DWM and 1906 pattern Portuguese Army Luger with holsters Hey all! I'm just posting these for the fun of it. I'll be putting a couple others I have later... First up is something I'll need help in an ID. I'm pretty sure its a DWM police, but I'm not sure of the country or age. Swiss maybe? This one has the original holster I believe and a cleaning rod/oiler plus a little pick? and is .30 with a bit longer barrel than the miitary ones that I have.... Grip safety. All numbers match. Again, I'm learning! Anyway here is Luger #1! And Luger #2 which is a DWM 1916. All numbers match. The holster may or may not have come with the Luger. There is a faint date stamped in the inside lid of the holster of 1914. I also have a seperate magazine pouch. The leather on this has seen better days... its got lots of cracks. Last edited by kk5fe; 04-06-2013 at 12:11 AM.

04-03-2013, 12:58 AM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Your first Luger is a Portuguese. Manual 2 was the king? These were somewhere in the timeframe of 1936 or so. The double magazine pouch you show with your 1916 Luger is Portuguese as well. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-03-2013, 01:23 AM	#3
kk5fe User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Orleans Posts: 29 Thanks: 6 Thanked 19 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks! Portuguese? I have so much to learn..... So would this be for Police or for the public?

04-03-2013, 01:58 AM	#4
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	I believe its a commercial contract with dwm made for the portugese army . I dont know diddly about holsters. I wonder if Mr.Burney can tell us how he knew its a portugese mag pouch? Nice rare pistol looks matched and original? thanks for posting pics

04-03-2013, 07:36 AM	#6
kk5fe User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Orleans Posts: 29 Thanks: 6 Thanked 19 Times in 4 Posts	Ron, I am in awe of the info you shared here. To answer those questions, yes the mag pouch does in fact have the AE stamp on the inside of the flap. I don't know how I missed that except I wasn't looking for it. As for the magazine in the pistol, it is an original type with the wood plug at the bottom and doesn't have any number on it. However even after looking at it carefully I could not find any proof mark. If they always put the proof on the mag, then it may have been swapped at some point in its life. Anyway, thanks again to all!

04-03-2013, 01:33 PM	#9
kk5fe User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Orleans Posts: 29 Thanks: 6 Thanked 19 Times in 4 Posts	Another question.... is there a way I can tell from the stamped numbers and letters in the 1914 holster what unit that came from? I'm asuming thats what it is.

04-03-2013, 02:18 PM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Yes, the Regimental guys will Chime in on this. It looks like the 1st. Jager Regiment, 21st. Company, pistol number 14?

04-03-2013, 02:33 PM	#11
abukafura Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northeast Wisconsin, near Greeen Bay Posts: 327 Thanks: 1,314 Thanked 90 Times in 57 Posts	Actually it is a Weimar marking that translates to 1st Company, 21st Regt, weapon 14.

04-04-2013, 08:27 AM	#12
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	Just slight correction about the time frame of the Portuguese Luger. As Ron correctly said, these pistols were purchased around 1908 for the Portuguese Army. At that time, Portugal was a Kingdom, and Manuel II (1889-1932) was its ruler. He had become king when his father (Carlos I) and older brother (Luis Felipe) were shot and killed by two anarchists on February 1st, 1908. However, Manuel II rule was short: a coup d'etat followed in October, 1910 and Portugal became a Republic. That's why some of the Navy portuguese Lugers bear the king Manuel II anagram and others has R.P. (Republica Portuguesa) over the chamber, as the political change occurred during the delivery of such guns. Nice pistols and thanks for sharing. Douglas.

04-04-2013, 11:21 PM	#14
Cleburne New User Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Beautiful pistols Keith! Your dad knew how to pick 'em.

04-05-2013, 12:57 AM	#15
kk5fe User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Orleans Posts: 29 Thanks: 6 Thanked 19 Times in 4 Posts	He sure did! I just wish I would have paid more attention to them while he was still with us..... but I'm learning now.

04-05-2013, 01:58 AM	#16
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 400 Thanks: 102 Thanked 127 Times in 75 Posts	Beautiful Portuguese Luger rig - seen a few beat up ones, but hard to find in that nice original condition, especially with the entire rig. A keeper for sure! -Geo

04-06-2013, 12:01 PM	#17
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Really like those Portuguese lugers Thanks for posting your M2 Vern

05-11-2013, 06:18 PM	#18
kk5fe User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Orleans Posts: 29 Thanks: 6 Thanked 19 Times in 4 Posts	Just an update to my post.... First a question on the Portuguese pistol. I took it apart today for a total cleaning and oiling and while all the major parts have the same number, I found the grip saftey lever had another number. Does anyone know if that part should have the same number, or is the number stamped on it something else. I have a feeling I already know the answer to this.... The other this is just a pleasent surprise on the 1916 luger. While I had it apart once before just to check things out, I hadnt noticed until today when I stripped it like the other one and found that the grips and magazine also have the same serial number stamped on them! I really have no idea how I missed the mag. To bad the wood plug is cracked... but it is a great thing to have it match!