Luger DWM commercial ID help

cityboy50 · 10-29-2011, 09:14 PM

Hello all -- brand new to the forum and I would like to get help in identifying my newly-purchased pistol. I have been looking through the forum for hints, but I don't have much to go on. The serial number is 8344 and right below the serial on the frame and above the trigger guard is the only proof mark/date on the pistol (other than the "crown nitro" proofs.) I cannot get a good picture of the mark, but I did do a rather primitive drawing, which I will upload. I'm interested in the manufacture date and anything else interesting. Thanks to anyone who can help. Pete

Edward Tinker · 10-29-2011, 09:58 PM

Pete, welcome to the forum, but I am unsure what the marking is, it could be about 3 different markings.

The crown N is the commercial acceptance markings usually seen, the marking above could be a suffix letter or it could be an overstamp of something.

Ed

MFC · 10-29-2011, 10:46 PM

Looks like a lower case cusive 'k'. It is part of the serial #. Sounds like you have an Alphabet DWM commercial. #8344k was made in 1922. It was made for the commercial market. Should be a 30 cal. If it has a 'Germany' export stamp somewhere on it , it was destined for the US.

cityboy50 · 10-29-2011, 11:41 PM

Hi Ed. Thx for the response and for moderating. I'm certain u get tired of all the newbies asking dumb Q's. Anyway, I did some more snooping on the net and think that my gun is a 1923 Commercial. Crown Nitro proofs, German written on extractor and safety, no date stamp, 3 3/4 inch (?) barrel. Just found the right combination of characteristics. I could be wrong and would welcome further education, but I'm cool with this. Thx again. Pete

cityboy50 · 10-29-2011, 11:46 PM

Mike. Thx for chiming in! Yup. After u said it I can see where it IS a cursive "k". And it is 30 cal. I was close with guessing 1923. Mystery solved. Hey, do I need to add the "K" to the serial number in my FFL book? When looking at the serial, it isn't obvious that the "k" is a suffix. Opinions? Thx again. Pete

cityboy50 · 10-29-2011, 11:47 PM

Mike. PS No export markings anywhere.

Edward Tinker · 10-30-2011, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cityboy50

... Hey, do I need to add the "K" to the serial number in my FFL book?

yes

there were over 2 million lugers made, so there are a lot of lugers with that same 4 digits (they were made in batches of 10k)

I am guessing you can't provide digital pictures?

Ed

cityboy50 · 10-30-2011, 12:24 AM

Ed. Only have iPhone quality pix which I uploaded. Some parts look like they have been replaced (trigger, mag release, take down) , but all numbers match. After market magazine. I paid $650. Did I get an ok deal? Pete

Edward Tinker · 10-30-2011, 12:32 AM

Any nice looking luger is worth that

cityboy50 · 10-30-2011, 12:39 AM

Thx, guys... u REALLY know your &%$#!!! I'll b back! Pete

Ron Wood · 10-30-2011, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cityboy50

I paid $650. Did I get an ok deal? Pete

Smokin' deal! If all the numbers match, why do you think the parts have been replaced?

cityboy50 · 10-30-2011, 01:17 AM

Hi Ron. The color of the parts that I mentioned (above) are slightly lighter than the rest of the gun. Same with the sideplate. I guess only an in-person inspection by a knowledgable expert can tell for certain. I wuz just guessing!! I like it alot. Can't wait to by ammo and hit the range. Pete

ithacaartist · 10-30-2011, 02:33 AM

Welcome, Pete, here's the good news: The color you describe--and it does show in your photos--is correct for your commercial. It's called "straw", and is applied to the parts by heat treating. Search the site for threads about this to learn more!

The side plate should be rust blued to match the rest of the pistol; however variations in the hardness/alloys of different areas of the gun are said to affect the tone of the rust bluing, and over time different components can become different shades or hues.

Here's the bad news: Though the 7.65 Luger is sweet to shoot, you'll find that the ammunition for this caliber is difficult to find, or expensive, or both.

David Parker

p.s. I agree with Ron about the smokiness of your deal!

cityboy50 · 10-30-2011, 02:40 AM

David. Wow. Thx for that. I guess I got a pretty good deal. Someone at the gun show today said that I could "unscrew" the barrel and install a 9mm barrel. Can u provide any feedback on a caliber change? Pete

DavidJayUden · 10-30-2011, 09:21 AM

Changing barrels is not a job for amatuers. Contact our own LugerDoc regarding heavy gunsmithing. Really. dju

wlyon · 10-30-2011, 10:29 AM

Believe your luger is a 1920 commercial and not a 1923 commercial. !923 commercials have five serial numbers. Nice looking luger good price! Enjoy Bill

Lugerdoc · 11-01-2011, 09:02 AM

Bill, You've got it backwards. The first commericals after WW1 continued using the 5 digit serialization that ended in the 75xxx range in 1914. When the numbers approached 100K in 1923, they switch to the military Alpha numeric system @ 2000i block rather than going to a 6 digit serial. The Alphabet commericals starting "i" suffix block corresponded to where 92,000 commericals, starting in 1900, would have already been made. TH

MFC · 11-01-2011, 11:52 PM

According to Jan Still's Weimar Lugers, 20 DWM (formerly 1923 commercial) production was from mid 1919 to mid 1921. Serial # range was from #75000 to #92000. Alphabet DWM (formerly 1920 commercial) production started at S#2000i mid 1921.

The old 1920 commercial - 1923 commercial designations are backwards and very confusing. In reality it is very simple and Jan Still's new designations make sence. I try to use the new designations as much as possible.

Commercial production started in 1900 with #1 and continued consecutively up to #92000 in mid 1921. At that point the commercial serial numbering system was changed to the military style with #2000i, which corresponds to #92000. It continued up to the v suffix in 1930.

10-29-2011, 10:46 PM	#3
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Looks like a lower case cusive 'k'. It is part of the serial #. Sounds like you have an Alphabet DWM commercial. #8344k was made in 1922. It was made for the commercial market. Should be a 30 cal. If it has a 'Germany' export stamp somewhere on it , it was destined for the US. __________________ Mike C.

10-30-2011, 10:29 AM	#16
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,655 Thanks: 3,212 Thanked 2,619 Times in 971 Posts	Believe your luger is a 1920 commercial and not a 1923 commercial. !923 commercials have five serial numbers. Nice looking luger good price! Enjoy Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

11-01-2011, 09:02 AM	#17
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Bill, You've got it backwards. The first commericals after WW1 continued using the 5 digit serialization that ended in the 75xxx range in 1914. When the numbers approached 100K in 1923, they switch to the military Alpha numeric system @ 2000i block rather than going to a 6 digit serial. The Alphabet commericals starting "i" suffix block corresponded to where 92,000 commericals, starting in 1900, would have already been made. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-01-2011, 11:52 PM	#18
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	According to Jan Still's Weimar Lugers, 20 DWM (formerly 1923 commercial) production was from mid 1919 to mid 1921. Serial # range was from #75000 to #92000. Alphabet DWM (formerly 1920 commercial) production started at S#2000i mid 1921. The old 1920 commercial - 1923 commercial designations are backwards and very confusing. In reality it is very simple and Jan Still's new designations make sence. I try to use the new designations as much as possible. Commercial production started in 1900 with #1 and continued consecutively up to #92000 in mid 1921. At that point the commercial serial numbering system was changed to the military style with #2000i, which corresponds to #92000. It continued up to the v suffix in 1930. __________________ Mike C.

10-29-2011, 09:14 PM	#1
cityboy50 User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger DWM commercial ID help Hello all -- brand new to the forum and I would like to get help in identifying my newly-purchased pistol. I have been looking through the forum for hints, but I don't have much to go on. The serial number is 8344 and right below the serial on the frame and above the trigger guard is the only proof mark/date on the pistol (other than the "crown nitro" proofs.) I cannot get a good picture of the mark, but I did do a rather primitive drawing, which I will upload. I'm interested in the manufacture date and anything else interesting. Thanks to anyone who can help. Pete Attached Thumbnails

10-29-2011, 09:58 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Pete, welcome to the forum, but I am unsure what the marking is, it could be about 3 different markings. The crown N is the commercial acceptance markings usually seen, the marking above could be a suffix letter or it could be an overstamp of something. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-29-2011, 11:41 PM	#4
cityboy50 User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Ed. Thx for the response and for moderating. I'm certain u get tired of all the newbies asking dumb Q's. Anyway, I did some more snooping on the net and think that my gun is a 1923 Commercial. Crown Nitro proofs, German written on extractor and safety, no date stamp, 3 3/4 inch (?) barrel. Just found the right combination of characteristics. I could be wrong and would welcome further education, but I'm cool with this. Thx again. Pete

10-29-2011, 11:46 PM	#5
cityboy50 User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mike. Thx for chiming in! Yup. After u said it I can see where it IS a cursive "k". And it is 30 cal. I was close with guessing 1923. Mystery solved. Hey, do I need to add the "K" to the serial number in my FFL book? When looking at the serial, it isn't obvious that the "k" is a suffix. Opinions? Thx again. Pete

10-29-2011, 11:47 PM	#6
cityboy50 User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mike. PS No export markings anywhere.

10-30-2011, 12:24 AM	#8
cityboy50 User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed. Only have iPhone quality pix which I uploaded. Some parts look like they have been replaced (trigger, mag release, take down) , but all numbers match. After market magazine. I paid $650. Did I get an ok deal? Pete Attached Thumbnails

10-30-2011, 12:32 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Any nice looking luger is worth that

10-30-2011, 12:39 AM	#10
cityboy50 User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thx, guys... u REALLY know your &%$#!!! I'll b back! Pete

10-30-2011, 01:17 AM	#12
cityboy50 User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Ron. The color of the parts that I mentioned (above) are slightly lighter than the rest of the gun. Same with the sideplate. I guess only an in-person inspection by a knowledgable expert can tell for certain. I wuz just guessing!! I like it alot. Can't wait to by ammo and hit the range. Pete

10-30-2011, 02:33 AM	#13
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,374 Thanks: 7,447 Thanked 2,613 Times in 1,380 Posts	Welcome, Pete, here's the good news: The color you describe--and it does show in your photos--is correct for your commercial. It's called "straw", and is applied to the parts by heat treating. Search the site for threads about this to learn more! The side plate should be rust blued to match the rest of the pistol; however variations in the hardness/alloys of different areas of the gun are said to affect the tone of the rust bluing, and over time different components can become different shades or hues. Here's the bad news: Though the 7.65 Luger is sweet to shoot, you'll find that the ammunition for this caliber is difficult to find, or expensive, or both. David Parker p.s. I agree with Ron about the smokiness of your deal!

10-30-2011, 02:40 AM	#14
cityboy50 User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	David. Wow. Thx for that. I guess I got a pretty good deal. Someone at the gun show today said that I could "unscrew" the barrel and install a 9mm barrel. Can u provide any feedback on a caliber change? Pete

10-30-2011, 09:21 AM	#15
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Changing barrels is not a job for amatuers. Contact our own LugerDoc regarding heavy gunsmithing. Really. dju