1917 DWM- Match Parts Inhereted. Looking to better Identify

BDHFM · 04-21-2010, 05:57 PM

I am new to this forum and have looked through much of this great resource. I have quickly become an instant fan.

I recently inherited from my (great) uncle who was a Battle of the Bulge participant/survivor, several 'souvenirs' including this 1917 DWM Luger as well as a holster (both pictured). The s/number on the gun is: 9455

I have been a modern gun owner for years and these are a chance, but welcome addition to my collection.

The gun has all matching parts (including the clip) and has several markings on it (pictured) that I would like to have identified? I had a gunsmith inspect it and he mentioned that it was about 90-95%? I believe he was referring to the bluing?

As a kid my uncle told me several incredible war stories, worthy of one of those movie interviews included in the various documentaries. Unfortunately he is no longer with us to tell them as I would love to have had a chance to follow up with adult questions as opposed to the ones I asked as a kid. The Lugers often played a role in the stories as he had an indirect way to explain their acquisition- ways that he likely felt were more appropriate for a young boy. Most often he avoided, politely the toughest questions. Those which took me a bit to understand and realize, should not be asked.

At some point I seem to recall when he described acquiring these 'souvenirs' that one of them may have come from an officer. Is there any way to tell by the photos and/or markings whether this is in fact the case?
Also, I am looking to get an idea as to its value, mostly for insurance purposes as I won’t likely be parting with such a historic, family artifact any time soon.

These photos were taken on the macro setting of my camera so they should provide pretty good detail. please let me know if additional are needed.

I acquired two others with this one that I will eventually post photos of as well. One is a 1939 Erfort(?) that seems to be, part-wise an assembly of two different guns(2 numbers). The other is a 1919 DWM, all matching parts (less the clip).

Thanks for any/all info you can provide.

FNorm · 04-21-2010, 10:22 PM

Nice looking piece. DWM made about 90,000 of them in 1917. Matching like yours is rare. The 1939 Erfurt is, indeed a parts gun, as Erfurt didn't make any after 1918. So you have a 1939 frame with an Erfurt toggle.

1919 DWM?. Better check that one. Could it be a 1917? Or a 1914?

BDHFM · 04-28-2010, 06:47 PM

I appologize for the delayed response- Yep, sorry. The other DWM is a 1918 (not 1919) S#: 4967 , thats what I get for trusting my memory.

Included are some pictures of it, although not quite as good as the others. Can you reccomend the best way to identify/get info on the marking photographed in my original post?

Again, thank you very much for your expertise...

Norme · 04-28-2010, 07:48 PM

Hi Brian, The symbols on the right side of the receiver are proof and inspection marks. There is no way to tell who the original owner, or owners, were. Matching magazines on an early gun like this are rare, and the holster looks nice. Regards, Norm

FNorm · 04-28-2010, 09:52 PM

Brian,

The marks read TSS, or as we would call it, C/T, C/S, C/S that's 'Crown/S', etc. Those are the correct proofs/inspections for a 1917-18 DWM. The last mark is the firing proof for DWM. Should be one on the rt. side of the barrel, and the left side of the breech block too. The Erfurt eagle was a little bit different. But some of the barrels/breech blocks could have the Erfurt eagle, and still be correct.

Are there any marks on the grips straps? That would be the only thing that could tell us where this pistol went after the factory. There were no special 'officers models'. Except for some gussied up presentation models. Nice family heirlooms!

FN

Edward Tinker · 04-28-2010, 10:27 PM

Welcome to the forum. The condition detracts as a collectable item, although its value is still around $900-$1000 because of its matching magazine. The holster, if not cut down inside or modified is worth around $150-$200.

Ed

lugerholsterrepair · 04-29-2010, 12:30 AM

Brian, Holster looks a little better than average. One would have to see the top open and a full view of the back to actually determine a price.
Nice photographs!

Jerry Burney

04-21-2010, 05:57 PM	#1
BDHFM New User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1917 DWM- Match Parts Inhereted. Looking to better Identify I am new to this forum and have looked through much of this great resource. I have quickly become an instant fan. I recently inherited from my (great) uncle who was a Battle of the Bulge participant/survivor, several 'souvenirs' including this 1917 DWM Luger as well as a holster (both pictured). The s/number on the gun is: 9455 I have been a modern gun owner for years and these are a chance, but welcome addition to my collection. The gun has all matching parts (including the clip) and has several markings on it (pictured) that I would like to have identified? I had a gunsmith inspect it and he mentioned that it was about 90-95%? I believe he was referring to the bluing? As a kid my uncle told me several incredible war stories, worthy of one of those movie interviews included in the various documentaries. Unfortunately he is no longer with us to tell them as I would love to have had a chance to follow up with adult questions as opposed to the ones I asked as a kid. The Lugers often played a role in the stories as he had an indirect way to explain their acquisition- ways that he likely felt were more appropriate for a young boy. Most often he avoided, politely the toughest questions. Those which took me a bit to understand and realize, should not be asked. At some point I seem to recall when he described acquiring these 'souvenirs' that one of them may have come from an officer. Is there any way to tell by the photos and/or markings whether this is in fact the case? Also, I am looking to get an idea as to its value, mostly for insurance purposes as I won’t likely be parting with such a historic, family artifact any time soon. These photos were taken on the macro setting of my camera so they should provide pretty good detail. please let me know if additional are needed. I acquired two others with this one that I will eventually post photos of as well. One is a 1939 Erfort(?) that seems to be, part-wise an assembly of two different guns(2 numbers). The other is a 1919 DWM, all matching parts (less the clip). Thanks for any/all info you can provide. Attached Thumbnails

04-21-2010, 10:22 PM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Nice looking piece. DWM made about 90,000 of them in 1917. Matching like yours is rare. The 1939 Erfurt is, indeed a parts gun, as Erfurt didn't make any after 1918. So you have a 1939 frame with an Erfurt toggle. 1919 DWM?. Better check that one. Could it be a 1917? Or a 1914? Last edited by FNorm; 04-21-2010 at 10:34 PM. Reason: sp

04-28-2010, 06:47 PM	#3
BDHFM New User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Other Photos and followup. I appologize for the delayed response- Yep, sorry. The other DWM is a 1918 (not 1919) S#: 4967 , thats what I get for trusting my memory. Included are some pictures of it, although not quite as good as the others. Can you reccomend the best way to identify/get info on the marking photographed in my original post? Again, thank you very much for your expertise... Attached Thumbnails

04-28-2010, 10:27 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Welcome to the forum. The condition detracts as a collectable item, although its value is still around $900-$1000 because of its matching magazine. The holster, if not cut down inside or modified is worth around $150-$200. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-29-2010, 12:30 AM	#7
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Brian, Holster looks a little better than average. One would have to see the top open and a full view of the back to actually determine a price. Nice photographs! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-28-2010, 07:48 PM	#4
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Brian, The symbols on the right side of the receiver are proof and inspection marks. There is no way to tell who the original owner, or owners, were. Matching magazines on an early gun like this are rare, and the holster looks nice. Regards, Norm

04-28-2010, 09:52 PM	#5
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Brian, The marks read TSS, or as we would call it, C/T, C/S, C/S that's 'Crown/S', etc. Those are the correct proofs/inspections for a 1917-18 DWM. The last mark is the firing proof for DWM. Should be one on the rt. side of the barrel, and the left side of the breech block too. The Erfurt eagle was a little bit different. But some of the barrels/breech blocks could have the Erfurt eagle, and still be correct. Are there any marks on the grips straps? That would be the only thing that could tell us where this pistol went after the factory. There were no special 'officers models'. Except for some gussied up presentation models. Nice family heirlooms! FN