advice on broomhandle mauser

ybz · 05-13-2009, 11:03 PM

yes i know it's not a luger, but thought i would ask and maybe i can get some advice or get pointed in the proper direction...

i've been collecting modern firearms for some time and would like to start collecting some older handguns for personal collection and investment. so i started looking into it and i am very very confused... lots of variations, markings, etc.; i guess that is what makes it fun... so while looking around for a luger i ran across a broomhandle mauser at a local gun store. the asking price is similar to what i've seen other broomhandle mausers go for, and while i think i may take the plunge with this one, i want to make sure that i'm not getting ripped-off...

so here it it (i dont have any pictures, but i'll describe the best i can)... i looked up some of the markings online, but i'm getting some odd results since the serial numbers dont seem to match the descriptions); maybe someone can give some advice here...

some of the info is from the gun store other is my own observations:

1896 broomhandle mauser - bluing looks great (has not been reblued) - has nitron blue parts such as the top extractor, safety, sights, locking block - those parts are accualy bluish in color.
according to the store, the barrel is 3.9" and it is chambered in 9mm; the handle has a red 9 in it.
the sights have markings upto 1000 yards
it has the letters U and BH under the barrel
also there are markings of a U with a crown above it (these markings were present on two areas
all the numbers appear to match
the serial number is 6989xx
there is a marking of waffenfabrik mauser oberndorf a/n

included with the gun is a wooden holster, also in good shape, with a leather holder/sholder strap

so....
what does something like this worth? are the numbers and description make sense? is this the gun that i could start my collection with? good investment? am i going to get ripped off? should i start with a luger instead...

thanks for your time,

ybz

policeluger · 05-13-2009, 11:38 PM

ybz, the first thing I would do is tell us where you located, perhaps there is a member near you who would help you out....

ybz · 05-14-2009, 12:41 AM

southern california - thousand oaks...

Steinar · 05-14-2009, 02:42 AM

I'm no expert on C96's, but I would expect a 'red nine' to have sights up to 500m, not 1km

alanint · 05-14-2009, 06:59 AM

agreed. A factory converted broom should have a 500 meter sight.
Are there any Chinese Characters on the gun anywhere?
Thousands of Broomhandles came into the US in the late 80s and early 90s from China. These were almost all refurbished and converted to 9mm. Do the Red 9 grips look fairly new? Does the stock fit snuggly and look like it belongs with the gun? Does the leather look appropriately old?
Any tiny import marks on it anywhere?
I still have one you would swear is original but I only paid $600 for it from one of the original China importers.
What are they asking for this ri?

sheepherder · 05-14-2009, 07:32 AM

There is an M1896 Forum at -

http://1896mauser.com/forum/

- which several members of this Forum are members of as well. The Serial Lookup at -

http://armscollectors.com/sn/c96lookup.php

- simply says that your Mauser was made sometime between 1923 and 1930. The short barrel indicates a Bolo Mauser. A look at some "Broomhandle" Mausers on GB should tell you whether it's a Bolo or an M1896.

I've owned an M30 Broomhandle in the past, and have another one right now, with a slight problem. I also just picked up a junker which I may fix up to shooter status...or maybe just hang it on my wall, next to my Colt 1872 Open Top...

ybz · 05-14-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

agreed. A factory converted broom should have a 500 meter sight.
Are there any Chinese Characters on the gun anywhere?
Thousands of Broomhandles came into the US in the late 80s and early 90s from China. These were almost all refurbished and converted to 9mm. Do the Red 9 grips look fairly new? Does the stock fit snuggly and look like it belongs with the gun? Does the leather look appropriately old?
Any tiny import marks on it anywhere?
I still have one you would swear is original but I only paid $600 for it from one of the original China importers.
What are they asking for this ri?

Thanks for all the responses everyone.
I did notice that the sites should be up to 500 not 1000, but this one is 1000... the grips look in very good condition, but then again , the whole gun looks in very good condition... i didn't see any import marks (no chineese characters), but frankly i wouldn't know what to look for and i didnt have the handle removed; i did notice the U with the crown on top, and the three letters under the barrel as i mentioned in the posting; the stock numbers do not match the gun, and i didn't try it on, so i'm not sure of the fit. they are aking $2500... the store owner says the stock alone is valued at $1000... i am concerned with the discrpencies i see with the serial numbers, grips, caliber, site markings, etc., but i dont know if that's normal for these guns... is the price too high? can i buy an investement quality gun for that price?
any additional info would be appriciated...
thanks,
ybz

sheepherder · 05-14-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ybz

can i buy an investement quality gun for that price?

Yep.

Here's where the Chinese characters are on my M30. This is not a Chinese copy; it's made by Mauser for export to China. The characters, on the bottom of the magwell, loosely translated, mean "Made in Germany".

The importers markings can also be seen in the relief above the trigger -

KFS ATL GA
C 96 7.63 GER

They stand for Keng's Firearms Specialties, Atlanta GA, rest is self explanatory...

sheepherder · 05-14-2009, 11:15 AM

Here's a quick pic of a Bolo on top and a M1896 on the bottom (for want of better terms). IMHO, the Bolo is not worth anything near what your gunshop is asking...and unless it's an M1896 (or M1930) with 90%+ blue and excellent bore and all matching w/excellent shoulder stock, not worth the price either...

There's lots of nice ones for that money on GB...

Bolo has shorter barrel and smaller grip...rest of pistol is the same as M1896...

policeluger · 05-14-2009, 11:24 AM

If you do not feel comfortable about the buy, then by all means listen to the inter voice and walk away, try surfing some of the larger dealers, listed to the left of screen under "links and resources"....see what they are asking for the price, I sorry I can't get away for a day, as I live in the high desert of Ca. and a day gun shopping would be fun.....

sheepherder · 05-14-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ybz

...they are aking $2500... the store owner says the stock alone is valued at $1000...

Balderdash!!!

Here's one on GB now, BIN $2250...If the one your gunshop has is better than this, then it *may* be worth $2500...

If not, here's one to watch and see what it goes for...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=128891731

(Not my auction)

policeluger · 05-14-2009, 12:23 PM

Stoch above looks sanded and varnished, if so would have a neg affect on price and collector value....

alvin · 05-14-2009, 05:48 PM

If you have $2500 to spend, don't spend on that reworked fake "red 9". Mr. George Anderson (member) has a beautiful Early 1930 in original near mint condition for sale, very reasonably priced. Send him a PM, you won't regret if that gun is still available.

ybz · 05-14-2009, 10:47 PM

Thanks everyone for the input...
the bluing on the gun, basically the entire gun except some parts of the barrel is basically like new; the nitron blue parts (they were blue in color), are also in very good condition except for the ejector which has been worn somewhat... that was something that was really stricking... the bluing looks like the bluing on some new firearms i bought, like a new shootgun... is that realistic for a 70+ yearold gun? i asked the gun store owner, he said you can tell it wasn't reblued since the numbers appear crisp and not worn (something that happens when a firearm is prepared for re-bluing), and that the guy just took excellent care of it...

policeluger · 05-14-2009, 11:04 PM

I'm sorry no one who may live in you area has jumped up and offered help......I would be very cautious.....

sheepherder · 05-14-2009, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by policeluger

I'm sorry no one who may live in you area has jumped up and offered help...

Pics would help...lots of pics...big pics...nice sharp clear pics...

ybz · 05-15-2009, 12:49 AM

if that price is in the ballpark, i'll ask to take some pictures. is it worth taking the time to take the pictures based on the price and the specifications? on the other hand it would be a good learning experience since i have interest in learning more on lugers and mausers...

alvin · 05-15-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ybz

is that realistic for a 70+ yearold gun?.

This one's caliber is wrong so it's irrelevant with the following statement.

Looks like new by itself is not a problem. I had an original Interarms P1 made in 1960s, I alone fired 5,000 rounds from it, and it still looks being a 97% gun and it's still accurate, because I took care of it. I bet if I store it away for another 30-40 years, it won't look very differently from today. Old original gun does not have to be a beater

sheepherder · 05-15-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ybz

...i asked the gun store owner, he said you can tell it wasn't reblued since the numbers appear crisp and not worn (something that happens when a firearm is prepared for re-bluing)...

He's referring to buffing, which is done to remove scratches, pits, rust, and any other blemish or cosmetic flaw. It's not absolutely necessary for reblueing; there are many chemicals which will strip the finish down to bare metal prior to reblueing wothout buffing.

Personally, I'm not terribly fussy about mismatched numbers, varnished stocks (or even repro stocks), relined barrels, wrong sights, or new grips. I just want it to be pleasing to my eyes. The price, however, *is* important. If I can get the same pistol all matching and original with no pitting and at least some blueing left, I'd rather have that. I'm not a collector; I'm an accumulator. I buy what I like, not what other people like. (I also buy pistols that I know are junk to work on, but that's another subject entirely).

Check Gunbroker.com, AuctionArms, GunsAmerica etc and see how that one stacks up against other pistols from other areas of the country. I've found that some specific pistols are regionally priced higher than others. A good looking Mauser on Gunbroker.com will have multiple pictures, and the seller is usually willing to post or email more. It's worth comparing your gunshops Broomhandle against others.

After you buy it, post some pics here and the more knowledgeable members will tell you if they think it was worth it or not...

05-13-2009, 11:03 PM	#1
ybz User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	advice on broomhandle mauser yes i know it's not a luger, but thought i would ask and maybe i can get some advice or get pointed in the proper direction... i've been collecting modern firearms for some time and would like to start collecting some older handguns for personal collection and investment. so i started looking into it and i am very very confused... lots of variations, markings, etc.; i guess that is what makes it fun... so while looking around for a luger i ran across a broomhandle mauser at a local gun store. the asking price is similar to what i've seen other broomhandle mausers go for, and while i think i may take the plunge with this one, i want to make sure that i'm not getting ripped-off... so here it it (i dont have any pictures, but i'll describe the best i can)... i looked up some of the markings online, but i'm getting some odd results since the serial numbers dont seem to match the descriptions); maybe someone can give some advice here... some of the info is from the gun store other is my own observations: 1896 broomhandle mauser - bluing looks great (has not been reblued) - has nitron blue parts such as the top extractor, safety, sights, locking block - those parts are accualy bluish in color. according to the store, the barrel is 3.9" and it is chambered in 9mm; the handle has a red 9 in it. the sights have markings upto 1000 yards it has the letters U and BH under the barrel also there are markings of a U with a crown above it (these markings were present on two areas all the numbers appear to match the serial number is 6989xx there is a marking of waffenfabrik mauser oberndorf a/n included with the gun is a wooden holster, also in good shape, with a leather holder/sholder strap so.... what does something like this worth? are the numbers and description make sense? is this the gun that i could start my collection with? good investment? am i going to get ripped off? should i start with a luger instead... thanks for your time, ybz

05-14-2009, 02:42 AM	#4
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	I'm no expert on C96's, but I would expect a 'red nine' to have sights up to 500m, not 1km __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

05-14-2009, 11:15 AM	#9
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,413 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Here's a quick pic of a Bolo on top and a M1896 on the bottom (for want of better terms). IMHO, the Bolo is not worth anything near what your gunshop is asking...and unless it's an M1896 (or M1930) with 90%+ blue and excellent bore and all matching w/excellent shoulder stock, not worth the price either... There's lots of nice ones for that money on GB... Bolo has shorter barrel and smaller grip...rest of pistol is the same as M1896... Attached Thumbnails

05-13-2009, 11:38 PM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	ybz, the first thing I would do is tell us where you located, perhaps there is a member near you who would help you out....

05-14-2009, 12:41 AM	#3
ybz User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	southern california - thousand oaks...

05-14-2009, 06:59 AM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	agreed. A factory converted broom should have a 500 meter sight. Are there any Chinese Characters on the gun anywhere? Thousands of Broomhandles came into the US in the late 80s and early 90s from China. These were almost all refurbished and converted to 9mm. Do the Red 9 grips look fairly new? Does the stock fit snuggly and look like it belongs with the gun? Does the leather look appropriately old? Any tiny import marks on it anywhere? I still have one you would swear is original but I only paid $600 for it from one of the original China importers. What are they asking for this ri?

05-14-2009, 07:32 AM	#6
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,413 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	There is an M1896 Forum at - http://1896mauser.com/forum/ - which several members of this Forum are members of as well. The Serial Lookup at - http://armscollectors.com/sn/c96lookup.php - simply says that your Mauser was made sometime between 1923 and 1930. The short barrel indicates a Bolo Mauser. A look at some "Broomhandle" Mausers on GB should tell you whether it's a Bolo or an M1896. I've owned an M30 Broomhandle in the past, and have another one right now, with a slight problem. I also just picked up a junker which I may fix up to shooter status...or maybe just hang it on my wall, next to my Colt 1872 Open Top...

05-14-2009, 11:24 AM	#10
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	If you do not feel comfortable about the buy, then by all means listen to the inter voice and walk away, try surfing some of the larger dealers, listed to the left of screen under "links and resources"....see what they are asking for the price, I sorry I can't get away for a day, as I live in the high desert of Ca. and a day gun shopping would be fun.....

05-14-2009, 12:23 PM	#12
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Stoch above looks sanded and varnished, if so would have a neg affect on price and collector value....

05-14-2009, 05:48 PM	#13
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	If you have $2500 to spend, don't spend on that reworked fake "red 9". Mr. George Anderson (member) has a beautiful Early 1930 in original near mint condition for sale, very reasonably priced. Send him a PM, you won't regret if that gun is still available.

05-14-2009, 10:47 PM	#14
ybz User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks everyone for the input... the bluing on the gun, basically the entire gun except some parts of the barrel is basically like new; the nitron blue parts (they were blue in color), are also in very good condition except for the ejector which has been worn somewhat... that was something that was really stricking... the bluing looks like the bluing on some new firearms i bought, like a new shootgun... is that realistic for a 70+ yearold gun? i asked the gun store owner, he said you can tell it wasn't reblued since the numbers appear crisp and not worn (something that happens when a firearm is prepared for re-bluing), and that the guy just took excellent care of it...

05-14-2009, 11:04 PM	#15
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I'm sorry no one who may live in you area has jumped up and offered help......I would be very cautious.....

05-15-2009, 12:49 AM	#17
ybz User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	if that price is in the ballpark, i'll ask to take some pictures. is it worth taking the time to take the pictures based on the price and the specifications? on the other hand it would be a good learning experience since i have interest in learning more on lugers and mausers...