Help Identifying Pistol

jimmyd201 · 01-18-2009, 12:00 AM

Hello,
I have a 1914 DWM pistol that my father and I purchased from the widow of a WWII veteran that told her that he brought the pistol back from the war. The way we got it was with a hand made shoulder hoster that the vet supposedly made and has some U.S. unit markings along with his name. It has two wood bottomed magazines that do not match the pistol's serial number.
The pistol itself is very clean and looks fired minimally as there is almost no wear internally and the bore is excellent and without pitting. The only bluing wear that I can tell is around the muzzle, the front sight, and the slightly at the sharp edges of the frame that would seemingly be contacted by the holster. On the trigger plate, there is also some slight wear and what appears to be very slight pitting on the front edge and the high area near the take-down lever. The straw color looks pretty good too, only having slight wear on the edge of the take-down lever and trigger.
In taking it apart, all the numbered parts match, including the grips. The only problems that I noticed are that the left grip has a chip by the safety lever and the hold open catch spring is missing.
I am assuming that this is an original finish pistol due to the interior slide and frame surfaces being free of bluing.

I know that the pictures are not the best and did not specifically take pictures of the inspection marks but would appreciate any input regarding this pistol.

Thanks,
Jim

MFC · 01-18-2009, 12:25 AM

Jim,
Great find!!! We all dream of finding Lugers in this condition.

Balder · 01-18-2009, 08:40 AM

Jim,

Wow! That's the nicest looking WW1 P08 I've ever seen. Congrats on a great find!

Balder

jimmyd201 · 01-18-2009, 08:53 AM

Thanks Mike,
I am just getting back into the Lugers after many years. I had an tired shooter many years ago that went toward another purchase and this one kind of just fell into our laps.

Is this a pretty much standard miliary issue pistol? By what I could tell, there are not unit markings on it. It seems that the frame markings are proofs that I was able to reference on the website and there are the markings where the barrel meets the slide. Also, I know that collectors really want everything in order on a Luger; does the grip issue and missing spring seriously alter its collectablity?

Jim

jonnyc · 01-18-2009, 09:44 AM

Original springs are available, but not that easily installed (as I discovered).

Edward Tinker · 01-18-2009, 09:45 AM

Welcome to the forum. The spring would not have been numbered, so that is not a big deal (JUST the spring correct?) and the chip on the grip affects the value for some collectors,but only minimally.

It looks very nice, but perhaps too nice. I would like to see larger and closer shots of the right and left and the underside of the barrel and frame serial numbers.

There doesn't seem to be any milling marks in the right side; and there is; on an unrestored luger.

Ed

alvin · 01-18-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyd201

I am assuming that this is an original finish pistol due to the interior slide and frame surfaces being free of bluing.

Jim -- That assumption is a little bit over-simplified. Professional restorers know the correct finish, so they seldomly make mistakes in "color". Close-up pictures -- marks, edges, pits, muzzle, .... just assume you're selling the gun.... I know you're not, but ID procedure is same..... detail is everything. This is the best military DWM that I've seen. It's very lucky to have it (most DWM in great shape are commercials).

George Anderson · 01-18-2009, 11:20 AM

A good close up photo of the toggle train and breech block should reveal whether the pistol has been restored.

jimmyd201 · 01-18-2009, 11:34 AM

Thanks to all for the responses,
In looking at the frame there are some milling marks present. I will try to get some better shots of the frame sides, toggle parts, and markings and post them. I carefully disassembled the pistol down to the firing pin and removing the grips, checking everything out. The only thing damaged was the grip chip and the spring. It appears that someone broke it off where it meets the hold open lever, but that lever is intact.
The circumstances of finding the piece were that the widow had it sitting in her dresser and it was loaded with 1950s era ammo (Yikes) Her husband had passed away about 15 years ago and I don't think it had been touched since then. Certainly that doesn't prove anything but we also got a couple of 98ks and some accessories for them and they apparently hadn't been reworked either.

Jim

jimmyd201 · 01-19-2009, 05:16 PM

Here are some addtional pictures of the frame, slide, muzzle, take down plate, toggle train, and breech block. Does this look like an orignal or a rework?

Thanks again,
Jim

Ron Wood · 01-19-2009, 05:38 PM

Beautiful gun. Looks original to me.

George Anderson · 01-19-2009, 08:59 PM

Jim, need one photo of the top of the toggle train and breech block.

LugerVern · 01-19-2009, 09:52 PM

If it's been redone I can't spot it!
Beautiful gun, we don't see many like this so when we do we are suspicious.

This would make a great example gun, so if you have the time to take clear detailed close-ups of the entire gun, I would appreciate it and I am sure others would too.

Thanks for sharing

Vern

jimmyd201 · 01-20-2009, 12:04 AM

Here is a shot of the top of the breech block and toggle train. What is an example gun? By what I understand from reading the forum posts, this isn't a rare variety of the luger, just in nice condition. Is this correct? I guess my next question is what kind of value does something like this pistol have?

I would be willing to take more pictures of this pistol. Are there other "example" gun pictures on the forum for me to base them on? Plus, I am having a tough time getting good pictures from my digital camera. Any suggestions?

Jim

Ron Wood · 01-20-2009, 12:35 AM

An "example" gun is one that can be a reference for which other guns can be judged. Your Luger is a very pristine "example" and is a standard for reference.

Tomathvl · 01-20-2009, 08:39 AM

Should the toggle pin retaining pin be in the white on this model?
Tom

jimmyd201 · 06-09-2009, 11:07 PM

Hello again,
I never got any additional posts on this thread but would still like your input on this pistol. I am wondering as to its value even though I do not plan on selling it.

Per my previous posts, the hold open spring was broken and I purchased a correct spring for the hold open catch from Tom Heller. Unfortunately, I could not easily get it into place and being a matched part, I stopped when I wasn't comfortable for fear of breaking it. Any ideas for getting it in correctly or should I let this be done by a professional?

Also, I am thinking trying to put together a holster rig that would be correct for this pistol. Being a 1914 DWM, would the only correct holster be a 1914 dated unit and is there a significance between the black and brown holsters?

Finally, are there any links in the forum that has images of stamps that would show the source of imperial magazines, even though my magazines are not matched, I would like to determine their orgin.

Thanks so much,
Jim

sheepherder · 06-10-2009, 09:39 AM

I see halos and sharp edges and mill cutter marks on the toggle, all of which are good...Chamber is in the white and barrel extension around it is blued; good again...

A good close-up of the frame ears would be nice...I can't really make out any round mill cutter swirls...they're probably there, I just can't make them out...

OMG...I'm starting to sound like a Luger Collector...

Don't get these guys started on the brown/black holster issue...

BTW: Just judging from browsing GB looking for shooters, I'd say the *low* estimate for your Luger would be $1000...(I don't bother looking at anything over that, so I can't give an upper estimate)...

Went Blakely · 06-10-2009, 12:28 PM

That is an absolute gem and a half, beautiful pistol!

alanint · 06-10-2009, 01:29 PM

You might consider having Hugh repair the chip in the grips. On this pistol it would be worth it....

01-18-2009, 12:00 AM	#1
jimmyd201 User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Help Identifying Pistol Hello, I have a 1914 DWM pistol that my father and I purchased from the widow of a WWII veteran that told her that he brought the pistol back from the war. The way we got it was with a hand made shoulder hoster that the vet supposedly made and has some U.S. unit markings along with his name. It has two wood bottomed magazines that do not match the pistol's serial number. The pistol itself is very clean and looks fired minimally as there is almost no wear internally and the bore is excellent and without pitting. The only bluing wear that I can tell is around the muzzle, the front sight, and the slightly at the sharp edges of the frame that would seemingly be contacted by the holster. On the trigger plate, there is also some slight wear and what appears to be very slight pitting on the front edge and the high area near the take-down lever. The straw color looks pretty good too, only having slight wear on the edge of the take-down lever and trigger. In taking it apart, all the numbered parts match, including the grips. The only problems that I noticed are that the left grip has a chip by the safety lever and the hold open catch spring is missing. I am assuming that this is an original finish pistol due to the interior slide and frame surfaces being free of bluing. I know that the pictures are not the best and did not specifically take pictures of the inspection marks but would appreciate any input regarding this pistol. Thanks, Jim Attached Thumbnails

01-18-2009, 12:25 AM	#2
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Jim, Great find!!! We all dream of finding Lugers in this condition. __________________ Mike C.

01-18-2009, 09:45 AM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,063 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Welcome to the forum. The spring would not have been numbered, so that is not a big deal (JUST the spring correct?) and the chip on the grip affects the value for some collectors,but only minimally. It looks very nice, but perhaps too nice. I would like to see larger and closer shots of the right and left and the underside of the barrel and frame serial numbers. There doesn't seem to be any milling marks in the right side; and there is; on an unrestored luger. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-19-2009, 05:16 PM	#10
jimmyd201 User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Here are some addtional pictures of the frame, slide, muzzle, take down plate, toggle train, and breech block. Does this look like an orignal or a rework? Thanks again, Jim Attached Thumbnails

01-19-2009, 05:38 PM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	Beautiful gun. Looks original to me. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-18-2009, 08:40 AM	#3
Balder User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 288 Thanks: 20 Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts	Jim, Wow! That's the nicest looking WW1 P08 I've ever seen. Congrats on a great find! Balder

01-18-2009, 08:53 AM	#4
jimmyd201 User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks Mike, I am just getting back into the Lugers after many years. I had an tired shooter many years ago that went toward another purchase and this one kind of just fell into our laps. Is this a pretty much standard miliary issue pistol? By what I could tell, there are not unit markings on it. It seems that the frame markings are proofs that I was able to reference on the website and there are the markings where the barrel meets the slide. Also, I know that collectors really want everything in order on a Luger; does the grip issue and missing spring seriously alter its collectablity? Jim

01-18-2009, 09:44 AM	#5
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	Original springs are available, but not that easily installed (as I discovered).

01-18-2009, 11:20 AM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	A good close up photo of the toggle train and breech block should reveal whether the pistol has been restored.

01-18-2009, 11:34 AM	#9
jimmyd201 User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks to all for the responses, In looking at the frame there are some milling marks present. I will try to get some better shots of the frame sides, toggle parts, and markings and post them. I carefully disassembled the pistol down to the firing pin and removing the grips, checking everything out. The only thing damaged was the grip chip and the spring. It appears that someone broke it off where it meets the hold open lever, but that lever is intact. The circumstances of finding the piece were that the widow had it sitting in her dresser and it was loaded with 1950s era ammo (Yikes) Her husband had passed away about 15 years ago and I don't think it had been touched since then. Certainly that doesn't prove anything but we also got a couple of 98ks and some accessories for them and they apparently hadn't been reworked either. Jim

01-19-2009, 08:59 PM	#12
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Jim, need one photo of the top of the toggle train and breech block.

01-19-2009, 09:52 PM	#13
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	If it's been redone I can't spot it! Beautiful gun, we don't see many like this so when we do we are suspicious. This would make a great example gun, so if you have the time to take clear detailed close-ups of the entire gun, I would appreciate it and I am sure others would too. Thanks for sharing Vern

01-20-2009, 12:04 AM	#14
jimmyd201 User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Here is a shot of the top of the breech block and toggle train. What is an example gun? By what I understand from reading the forum posts, this isn't a rare variety of the luger, just in nice condition. Is this correct? I guess my next question is what kind of value does something like this pistol have? I would be willing to take more pictures of this pistol. Are there other "example" gun pictures on the forum for me to base them on? Plus, I am having a tough time getting good pictures from my digital camera. Any suggestions? Jim Attached Thumbnails

01-20-2009, 12:35 AM	#15
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	An "example" gun is one that can be a reference for which other guns can be judged. Your Luger is a very pristine "example" and is a standard for reference. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-20-2009, 08:39 AM	#16
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	Should the toggle pin retaining pin be in the white on this model? Tom

06-09-2009, 11:07 PM	#17
jimmyd201 User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Hello again, I never got any additional posts on this thread but would still like your input on this pistol. I am wondering as to its value even though I do not plan on selling it. Per my previous posts, the hold open spring was broken and I purchased a correct spring for the hold open catch from Tom Heller. Unfortunately, I could not easily get it into place and being a matched part, I stopped when I wasn't comfortable for fear of breaking it. Any ideas for getting it in correctly or should I let this be done by a professional? Also, I am thinking trying to put together a holster rig that would be correct for this pistol. Being a 1914 DWM, would the only correct holster be a 1914 dated unit and is there a significance between the black and brown holsters? Finally, are there any links in the forum that has images of stamps that would show the source of imperial magazines, even though my magazines are not matched, I would like to determine their orgin. Thanks so much, Jim

06-10-2009, 09:39 AM	#18
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,414 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	I see halos and sharp edges and mill cutter marks on the toggle, all of which are good...Chamber is in the white and barrel extension around it is blued; good again... A good close-up of the frame ears would be nice...I can't really make out any round mill cutter swirls...they're probably there, I just can't make them out... OMG...I'm starting to sound like a Luger Collector... Don't get these guys started on the brown/black holster issue... BTW: Just judging from browsing GB looking for shooters, I'd say the *low* estimate for your Luger would be $1000...(I don't bother looking at anything over that, so I can't give an upper estimate)...

06-10-2009, 12:28 PM	#19
Went Blakely User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 231 Thanks: 4 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	That is an absolute gem and a half, beautiful pistol! __________________ Went Blakely

06-10-2009, 01:29 PM	#20
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	You might consider having Hugh repair the chip in the grips. On this pistol it would be worth it....