Original or Krause???

Johnny C. Kitchens · 04-06-2004, 04:41 AM

Found this image of a .45 Luger. I wonder if it is the real thing or one from Krause, in California, or maybe something else altogether???

Johnny C. Kitchens · 04-06-2004, 04:45 AM

Meant to add, that several parts look wrong in the picture. The safety and surrounding area, and the side plate looks wrong...

John Sabato · 04-06-2004, 08:59 AM

Johnny, that is a Krause .45 Luger, I have seen the image before and am sure it is in my Luger photo archive. Anything that looks "wrong" is photo distortion. These guns were built as reverse engineered from the "real" Million Dollar gun...which Krause had access to.

I was wrong!-- it happens! -- see Ron Woods comments below

Ron Wood · 04-06-2004, 12:27 PM

I don't think that is a Krause .45. The proportions are all wrong, much more than would be caused by photographic distortion. My guess is that it is indeed "something else altogether", either a photo composite made up by altering and pasting together different images, or a gun fabricated by someone other than Mike Krause. My instinct is that it is a photo montage, the shadows are not consistent.

John Sabato · 04-06-2004, 01:12 PM

Thanks for the correction Ron... I have found the source and the rest of the photographs... they were submitted by Lugerforum member "Balcar" (from Finland I think?) of a .45 caliber Luger that was hand made by a gunsmith in Europe and who didn't have the advantage of pulling dimensions from the original genuine gun.

Here are the rest of the photos in thumbnail form, click on the thumbnail to see the photo full size:

<a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar1.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar1.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar2.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar2.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar3.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar3.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar4.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar4.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar5.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar5.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar6.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar6.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar1.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar1.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Edward Tinker · 04-06-2004, 01:31 PM

Plzen county
Czech Republic

Jan Balcar

John Sabato · 04-06-2004, 01:49 PM

--The Czech Republic! thanks for refreshing my aging memory Jan Balcar, and thanks again for these photos!

Ron Wood · 04-06-2004, 03:51 PM

He may not have had the original dimensions to work from, but that is still one heckuva nice job and a beautiful looking Luger. Glad I was wrong about the photo composite.

Edward Tinker · 04-06-2004, 04:22 PM

John S., hey, I tried to do it discretly, changing your Jan to Ed, since I was the one that posted the info,

but you changed it back on me <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

Ed

John Sabato · 04-06-2004, 04:27 PM

THANKS ED!... I looked at the info, not the avatar!

04-06-2004, 04:41 AM	#1
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	Original or Krause??? Found this image of a .45 Luger. I wonder if it is the real thing or one from Krause, in California, or maybe something else altogether??? __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

04-06-2004, 04:45 AM	#2
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	Meant to add, that several parts look wrong in the picture. The safety and surrounding area, and the side plate looks wrong... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

04-06-2004, 08:59 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Johnny, that is a Krause .45 Luger, I have seen the image before and am sure it is in my Luger photo archive. Anything that looks "wrong" is photo distortion. These guns were built as reverse engineered from the "real" Million Dollar gun...which Krause had access to. I was wrong!-- it happens! -- see Ron Woods comments below __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-06-2004, 12:27 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,020 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	I don't think that is a Krause .45. The proportions are all wrong, much more than would be caused by photographic distortion. My guess is that it is indeed "something else altogether", either a photo composite made up by altering and pasting together different images, or a gun fabricated by someone other than Mike Krause. My instinct is that it is a photo montage, the shadows are not consistent. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-06-2004, 01:12 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Thanks for the correction Ron... I have found the source and the rest of the photographs... they were submitted by Lugerforum member "Balcar" (from Finland I think?) of a .45 caliber Luger that was hand made by a gunsmith in Europe and who didn't have the advantage of pulling dimensions from the original genuine gun. Here are the rest of the photos in thumbnail form, click on the thumbnail to see the photo full size: <a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar1.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar1.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar2.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar2.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar3.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar3.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar4.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar4.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar5.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar5.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar6.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar6.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar1.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://www.lugerforum.com/images/balcar45luger/balcar1.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-06-2004, 01:31 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,930 Thanks: 2,030 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	Plzen county Czech Republic Jan Balcar __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-06-2004, 01:49 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	--The Czech Republic! thanks for refreshing my aging memory Jan Balcar, and thanks again for these photos! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-06-2004, 03:51 PM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,020 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	He may not have had the original dimensions to work from, but that is still one heckuva nice job and a beautiful looking Luger. Glad I was wrong about the photo composite. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-06-2004, 04:22 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,930 Thanks: 2,030 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	John S., hey, I tried to do it discretly, changing your Jan to Ed, since I was the one that posted the info, but you changed it back on me <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-06-2004, 04:27 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	THANKS ED!... I looked at the info, not the avatar! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*