New Chinese Parabellum

Sieger · 04-18-2004, 12:28 AM

Hi All:

Over ten years ago, I read an article in the Deutsches Waffen Journal regarding a prototype, examined by the author, of a 9mm P-08 clone being produced in China for export sale.

Has anyone else heard of such a pistol, and if so, where?

Sieger

Thor · 04-18-2004, 12:45 AM

Nope, but I have started work today on a 45 ACPChinese Broomhandle. Man.........that is one BIG DUDE HOG LEG PISTOL!!!

Doubs · 04-18-2004, 02:09 AM

I've never heard of a Chinese-produced Luger but wouldn't it be nice if they did? They're one country that could make them at a reasonable price.

Sieger · 04-18-2004, 02:19 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doubs:
I've never heard of a Chinese-produced Luger but wouldn't it be nice if they did? They're one country that could make them at a reasonable price.<hr /></blockquote>Doubs:

The sad thing is that I just remembered that gun grabber Bill Clinton excluded firearms from the goodies we can import from China. Oh well.

The German author was quite happy with the function of the Chinese Luger, but commented that finish was not up to European standards (something I'm sure the Chinese would have been happy to "fix").

Sieger

stymie · 04-18-2004, 01:53 PM

Thor...

I'll bet that Shansi Broomhandle didn't come w/ OEM 10rd stripper clips... lol

I had one of the IAR .45s w/ the QD stock.

Doubs · 04-18-2004, 04:22 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sieger:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doubs:
I've never heard of a Chinese-produced Luger but wouldn't it be nice if they did? They're one country that could make them at a reasonable price.<hr /></blockquote>Doubs:

The sad thing is that I just remembered that gun grabber Bill Clinton excluded firearms from the goodies we can import from China. Oh well.
Sieger<hr /></blockquote>That's true..... I'd forgotten about that. Maybe it's time we remind the administration that Clinton doesn't dictate Chinese policy any longer!

However, I'm sure our domestic manufacturers wouldn't be so pleased to have China exporting guns to the US again. Still, a policy limited to historic arms might be workable.

TOGGLELOCK · 04-18-2004, 06:21 PM

Chinese steel sucks, so don't expect their P08 to rival anything that was manufacturered 60+ years ago. TOGGLELOCK

Thor · 04-18-2004, 10:01 PM

Wish I could read these markings on this 45 ACP Chinese pistol. I will post pictures on it later this week.

Sieger · 04-19-2004, 12:26 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TOGGLELOCK:
Chinese steel sucks, so don't expect their P08 to rival anything that was manufacturered 60+ years ago. TOGGLELOCK<hr /></blockquote>Dear Togglelock:

Well, some of their steel sucks, some of it does not. I guess it would compare to the other firearms being currently made there.

The old steel used in their M98 copies often sucked!!

Sieger

PS: We can't import them anyway, so it won't really matter.

Sieger · 04-19-2004, 12:30 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thor:
[QB]Wish I could read these markings on this 45 ACP Chinese pistol. I will

Thor:

These should be easy to read. Do we have any Chinese members?

It may be a bit to early to ask you, but what do you think of the quality of production of this Hand Cannon, as I may just buy on for myself.

Sieger

Sieger · 04-19-2004, 12:41 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doubs:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sieger:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Doubs:
I've never heard of a Chinese-produced Luger but wouldn't it be nice if they did? They're one country that could make them at a reasonable price.<hr /></blockquote>Doubs:

The sad thing is that I just remembered that gun grabber Bill Clinton excluded firearms from the goodies we can import from China. Oh well.
Sieger<hr /></blockquote>That's true..... I'd forgotten about that. Maybe it's time we remind the administration that Clinton doesn't dictate Chinese policy any longer!

However, I'm sure our domestic manufacturers wouldn't be so pleased to have China exporting guns to the US again. Still, a policy limited to historic arms might be workable.<hr /></blockquote>Doubs:

You make an interesting point here regarding our firearms manufacturers, but what about everything else we are importing from them, all $134,000,000,000 worth of it?!?

It's ironic that Clinton stabbed the Unions here in the back with his China trade policy and they didn't even feel the knife blade.

Now the Dems are trying to blame the Republicans for "out sourcing".

Wonders never cease!!!

Sieger

Hairy · 04-19-2004, 06:44 AM

My son is fluent in Chinese, so if you have any photos, please post them & we'll get a translation.

Vlim · 04-19-2004, 08:03 AM

But check first if this DWJ article wasn't in the april issue.

Thor · 04-19-2004, 09:26 AM

Will do Hairy, thank you! I will have a full photo run up on it later this week.

Johnny C. Kitchens · 04-20-2004, 12:50 AM

Thor

The Feb/Mar 2004 issue of Handguns has a translation of the marks. They did a review of the gun in the Oct/Nov 2003 issue...

On the right side of the receiver it says "1929 made in Shansei, Republic of China". The other side caused some confusion. One person came up with "Model 17" while an article from American Rifleman in 1948 said in meant "Seventh Year" which equals 1918. Some noted that the characters of the two guns were similar but slightly different. The article said some mystery will prevail...

stymie · 04-20-2004, 10:47 AM

http://www.northwest-denture.com/mau...ariations.html

stymie · 04-20-2004, 10:49 AM

http://www.iar-arms.com/mausereview1.htm

Franz Lehr · 07-04-2004, 06:31 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Thor:
Wish I could read these markings on this 45 ACP Chinese pistol. I will post pictures on it later this week.<hr /></blockquote>Thor, if you mean the www.gunsworld.com/mauser/c96/graphs/Shansei_R_CU.jpg then there the translation is wrong. It should be read from the right to the left (starting from the barrel side). The first five signs means "18 years after the last emperor" = year 1912, the remaining signs means a name, maybe Shang Sei.
If you have anything else, please post me a picture, I am presently a director of a large water project and the Contractor is a Chinese company.
Franz

Thor · 07-04-2004, 03:46 PM

Franz, please send me an email to Thor340@aol.com and I will email you the pictures of the Shansei Broomhandle I am talking about. Thanks for your help.

04-18-2004, 12:28 AM	#1
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	New Chinese Parabellum Hi All: Over ten years ago, I read an article in the Deutsches Waffen Journal regarding a prototype, examined by the author, of a 9mm P-08 clone being produced in China for export sale. Has anyone else heard of such a pistol, and if so, where? Sieger

04-18-2004, 12:45 AM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Nope, but I have started work today on a 45 ACPChinese Broomhandle. Man.........that is one BIG DUDE HOG LEG PISTOL!!! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

04-18-2004, 02:19 AM	#4
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Doubs: <strong>I've never heard of a Chinese-produced Luger but wouldn't it be nice if they did? They're one country that could make them at a reasonable price.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Doubs: The sad thing is that I just remembered that gun grabber Bill Clinton excluded firearms from the goodies we can import from China. Oh well. The German author was quite happy with the function of the Chinese Luger, but commented that finish was not up to European standards (something I'm sure the Chinese would have been happy to "fix"). Sieger

04-18-2004, 01:53 PM	#5
stymie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KC,MO USA Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thor... I'll bet that Shansi Broomhandle didn't come w/ OEM 10rd stripper clips... lol I had one of the IAR .45s w/ the QD stock. __________________ "Irony can be pretty ironic!"

04-18-2004, 04:22 PM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,671 Thanks: 772 Thanked 1,617 Times in 526 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Sieger: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Doubs: <strong>I've never heard of a Chinese-produced Luger but wouldn't it be nice if they did? They're one country that could make them at a reasonable price.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Doubs: The sad thing is that I just remembered that gun grabber Bill Clinton excluded firearms from the goodies we can import from China. Oh well. Sieger</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">That's true..... I'd forgotten about that. Maybe it's time we remind the administration that Clinton doesn't dictate Chinese policy any longer! However, I'm sure our domestic manufacturers wouldn't be so pleased to have China exporting guns to the US again. Still, a policy limited to historic arms might be workable.

04-18-2004, 02:09 AM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,671 Thanks: 772 Thanked 1,617 Times in 526 Posts	I've never heard of a Chinese-produced Luger but wouldn't it be nice if they did? They're one country that could make them at a reasonable price.

04-18-2004, 06:21 PM	#7
TOGGLELOCK User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: USA Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Chinese steel sucks, so don't expect their P08 to rival anything that was manufacturered 60+ years ago. TOGGLELOCK

04-18-2004, 10:01 PM	#8
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Wish I could read these markings on this 45 ACP Chinese pistol. I will post pictures on it later this week. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

04-19-2004, 12:26 AM	#9
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by TOGGLELOCK: <strong>Chinese steel sucks, so don't expect their P08 to rival anything that was manufacturered 60+ years ago. TOGGLELOCK</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Dear Togglelock: Well, some of their steel sucks, some of it does not. I guess it would compare to the other firearms being currently made there. The old steel used in their M98 copies often sucked!! Sieger PS: We can't import them anyway, so it won't really matter.

04-19-2004, 12:30 AM	#10
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thor: [QB]Wish I could read these markings on this 45 ACP Chinese pistol. I will Thor: These should be easy to read. Do we have any Chinese members? It may be a bit to early to ask you, but what do you think of the quality of production of this Hand Cannon, as I may just buy on for myself. Sieger

04-19-2004, 12:41 AM	#11
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Doubs: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Sieger: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Doubs: <strong>I've never heard of a Chinese-produced Luger but wouldn't it be nice if they did? They're one country that could make them at a reasonable price.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Doubs: The sad thing is that I just remembered that gun grabber Bill Clinton excluded firearms from the goodies we can import from China. Oh well. Sieger</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">That's true..... I'd forgotten about that. Maybe it's time we remind the administration that Clinton doesn't dictate Chinese policy any longer! However, I'm sure our domestic manufacturers wouldn't be so pleased to have China exporting guns to the US again. Still, a policy limited to historic arms might be workable.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Doubs: You make an interesting point here regarding our firearms manufacturers, but what about everything else we are importing from them, all $134,000,000,000 worth of it?!? It's ironic that Clinton stabbed the Unions here in the back with his China trade policy and they didn't even feel the knife blade. Now the Dems are trying to blame the Republicans for "out sourcing". Wonders never cease!!! Sieger

04-19-2004, 06:44 AM	#12
Hairy User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Hudson, FL Posts: 120 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My son is fluent in Chinese, so if you have any photos, please post them & we'll get a translation.

04-19-2004, 08:03 AM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,043 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,930 Times in 1,194 Posts	But check first if this DWJ article wasn't in the april issue.

04-19-2004, 09:26 AM	#14
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Will do Hairy, thank you! I will have a full photo run up on it later this week. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

04-20-2004, 12:50 AM	#15
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	Thor The Feb/Mar 2004 issue of Handguns has a translation of the marks. They did a review of the gun in the Oct/Nov 2003 issue... On the right side of the receiver it says "1929 made in Shansei, Republic of China". The other side caused some confusion. One person came up with "Model 17" while an article from American Rifleman in 1948 said in meant "Seventh Year" which equals 1918. Some noted that the characters of the two guns were similar but slightly different. The article said some mystery will prevail... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

04-20-2004, 10:47 AM	#16
stymie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KC,MO USA Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	http://www.northwest-denture.com/mau...ariations.html __________________ "Irony can be pretty ironic!"

04-20-2004, 10:49 AM	#17
stymie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KC,MO USA Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	http://www.iar-arms.com/mausereview1.htm __________________ "Irony can be pretty ironic!"

07-04-2004, 06:31 AM	#18
Franz Lehr New User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Thor: <strong>Wish I could read these markings on this 45 ACP Chinese pistol. I will post pictures on it later this week.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Thor, if you mean the www.gunsworld.com/mauser/c96/graphs/Shansei_R_CU.jpg then there the translation is wrong. It should be read from the right to the left (starting from the barrel side). The first five signs means "18 years after the last emperor" = year 1912, the remaining signs means a name, maybe Shang Sei. If you have anything else, please post me a picture, I am presently a director of a large water project and the Contractor is a Chinese company. Franz

07-04-2004, 03:46 PM	#19
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Franz, please send me an email to Thor340@aol.com and I will email you the pictures of the Shansei Broomhandle I am talking about. Thanks for your help. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."