A very sad story

[Jerry L.]

A very sad story:

A friend of a very good friend of mine went through a nasty divorce about 15 years ago. The judge ordered that everything be split 50/50. The husband, Jack, had been a Luger collector for years and was forced to sell off his collection, about 15 pieces. (Funny, the wife got to keep her jewelry) Jack refused to sell his pride and joy, a 1917 dated DWM artillery.

His wife (Satan) in better days, had supported Jack in his collecting and even learned how to take a Luger down. Jackâ??s biggest mistake during the divorce was that he neglected to change the combination on his gun safe. Satan took the judgeâ??s 50/50 ruling literally. She got into Jackâ??s safe and took half the artillery; the frame, mag, and side plate.

To this day Satan has never revealed what she did with her half of the pistol. Jack kept the top half for a few years but eventually couldnâ??t stand to look at it any more and gave it to my friend Bob. Bob swapped it to me for a .45 slide and barrel.

Iâ??ve had it for a few years and at first was going to try and find a bottom half and use it as a shooter, but never did anything about it. According to Bob, the pistol originally was a 99% piece and I think the attached pics will confirm that, almost. Pic # 2320 shows the only appreciable blue wear along with the left side barrel @ the muzzle where it's a bit thin. Serial # 8469 (Suffix??). Fine tune, front and rear.

Iâ??m new to the Forum and I hope itâ??s okay to post things of this nature. Basically I just wanted to have guys who appreciate fine Lugers to see this. So Iâ??ve got the top, whoâ??s got the bottom?

Jerry L.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/img_2324.jpg
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[policeluger]

wow...what a story...looking at the top, the gun must have been in mint condition and a real treasure, she did no one good in this, and only wish I could help....

[John Sabato]

Jerry, a very sad story indeed... but a nice artillery top...

From the photos you were kind enough to post links to, I can make the observation that this Luger had been refinished at some point. It is a very well done refinish, but you can tell because the blueing is over some of the pitting that would have been too hard to remove... the DWM logo on the toggle is very thin (meaning not deep) indicating that the top of the toggle had been refinished. The bluing wear along the sides of the front sight band is also inconsistent with a pistol that should have had some obvious holster wear...

Please don't take this as really bad news because the overall assembly is in nice shape and you can certainly find a frame and associated parts to make this a terrific shooter example of an artillery... the likelihood of the ex-spouse relinquishing the bottom half is virtually zero... so building this back into a serviceable firearms is certainly the way to go. Even if someday hell freezes over and the bottom half is returned, you could always sell the parts you buy to make it complete and will probably not lose any money...

Put your needs in the Wanted To Buy forum and somebody out there in our membership will probably have what you are looking for. Since the bottom frame is the controlled serial numbered item, buying one will have to be treated as if it is a complete firearm and will have to go through a FFL dealer or if you are a C&R license holder, you can buy it directly...

Best of luck, and if no one has welcomed you to the Lugerforum, let me...

[Vlim]

Hi,

You should be grateful that the wife wasn't any smarter. She removed the parts that are also found on any standard P08. A frame and sideplate are relatively easy to obtain. Finding a nice complete LP08 upper assembly is the really hard part.

[Jerry L.]

John,

Hope I can explain this properly. I'd bet you a lunch that if you could hold this Receiver/Barrel in your hand you might have second thoughts on whether it has been refinished. I've added another pic under the originals that I took with a crummy webcam but it shows a few things that might not be visible in the other pics.

When I first noticed the thin DWM stamp I was concerned, but if you look at the last two digits of the serial# 69 you'll notice that they're very deep and show no signs of polishing, etc.; also some machining lines are present and the rest of the finish shows evidence of the "scratch" marks left by the circular brushes used in the rust blueing process.

I don't know if DWM ever let a shallow logo stamp pass final inspection but if you look closely you'll see the front edge and lower loop of the D is very deep, it's just the rear part of the M and the loops that are thin and directly behind that is the deep 69. Maybe the die was cocked? who knows. Also, my camera did not pick up the visible holster wear on the left side of the barrel and at the muzzle. But really, if you could see it in real life I think you'd change your mind.

This sort of thing takes me back to the 1960s and 70s when I had a pretty nice collection of Early Grip Safeties. It was relatively easy to spot a pistol that had been refinished. It was almost impossible for even the best gunsmiths to replicate DWM's rust blueing process in my opinion.

I'd be willing to send this out to you or anyone who really knows their finishes and if I'm wrong I'll buy the lunch.

Respectfully,

Jerry

[lugerholsterrepair]

John, I have to agree with Jerry, I don't think this has been refinnished. The frame rails are in the white as they should be and it would take an astute refinisher indeed to leave that detail. Jerry Burney

[Jerry L.]

policeluger, John Sabato, G. van Vlimmeren, Jerry Burney,

Thanks very much for your comments, it's nice to be in the company of Luger collectors again after a 22 year separation. I'm getting more fond of this Forum everyday.

Jerry L.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Jerry, Glad to have you on board..We need new members like you who have an interest. The more the merrier. Jerry Burney

[Ron Wood]

I have to come in on the side of the non-refinish opinion. The toggle axle retaining pin is still in the white and the serial numbers exhibit a halo. To my eye it looks like a pretty pristine original. Welcome back to the fold. I don't know how you held out for 22 years. Grip safety models rule!!

[policeluger]

I never felt is was refinished and so never touched on that subject.....so let me add/state it is as mint original as you'll find.....best of luck.

[c3006]

If i were you I would try and track down the devil and offer a fake diamond ring or something to get intel on the missing half. You never know,its a super nice piece anyway. clint

[John Sabato]

I submit to the consensus of my esteemed colleagues... but I still think the pitted areas should be closely examined with a jewelers loupe under appropriate light to see if the bluing is over the pits...

c3006 has a great suggestion!

[Jerry L.]

Well,

I'm going to do what I should have done before, answer each reply separately starting with the last by John.

John, thanks for the submission, seriously though, when you mentioned pitting it threw me off because there is no pitting whatsoever anywhere on the piece. If you're referring to the area on the rear toggle link below the 69, (pic# 2320) that's just, unfortunately, blue wear and some dings in the metal that show white metal under the blue, it's definitely not pitting. If you mean another area please let me know which picture.

Thanks again for your input, I really appreciate it and thanks for your welcome to the Forum I hope to be a very active member.

Jerry

[Jerry L.]

c3006,

It's a good suggestion and it's already been tried several times by my friend Bob who knew her. He says she is going to take the secret to the grave, won't tell, period.

Thanks for the reply,

Jerry

[Jerry L.]

policeluger,

Thanks, I know you didn't and yes it's in beautiful condition, maybe I'll try to find a nice frame and sideplate, I've got a good mag for it.

Take care,

Jerry

[Jerry L.]

Hi Ron,

Those are very good points which I didn't think to include in my "defense argument."

Well, I'm happy to be back but I don't come equipped with what I had back then, over 40 pieces mostly Grip Saftey types and some nice militaries including Krieghoffs, KUs, K Date, G Date, Mauser Banner Police, and some of the more common type Mausers.

I sold them off little by little prior to 1984 except for five pieces: 1900 Test Eagle #6413 with a perfect holster, 1900 Swiss Commercial #375 as perfect as a Swiss can be, 1902 Fat Barrel Eagle #22708 with Ideal Grips and telescoping stock holster, 1906 Eagle 7,65 #31666 and a 1906 Naval rig, can't remember the number. The reason I sold the last five was to get a downpayment for my house.

I sold the Test Eagle which had a Presentation case to a dealer in NH who told me he later sold it to Ralph Shattuck. I sold the Fat Barrel Eagle and the 1906 Eagle and the Naval to the late Bernie Lafferty and his partner at the time and a very good friend, Jim Chasse, who I'm sure you know took the photos of Ralph's Lugers in Kenyon's book.

So here I am with a 1940/42 rig, the top half of what was a very nice Artillery, a nice 1915 holster a couple of P.38s and PP rigs and not enough $$ to get back into my first love Early Grip Safetys.

Thanks Ron,

Jerry

[the gunman]

Hi Jerry I bought a navy from Bernie Lafferty just before the plane went down. Bought it if I can remember at a conn. gun show wonder if it might have been yours. Stolen many years ago along with a number of other guns. Don't have any numbers and its so far back I can't remember much about it. I do remember Bernie very fondly . A real gentleman he is missed by many.
Regards Richie

[Jerry L.]

Hi Richie,

It was probably the Glastonbury Show, always one of the best shows in the east. I can't find any of my old Bought/Sold files, probably in the attic. It was at that show that I sold the Fat Barrel, the 1906 .30 cal, a Mauser Banner Police and the Navy. Was it a complete rig, holster, stock? Mine was, but he may have sold just the pistol. Gee, that's really too bad your guns got stolen. I lost a half dozen in a housebreak in early 1980 but no Lugers, thank the Lord. I used to keep a few pistols in my bureau drawer so that if anyone found them they wouldn't look any further, figured they got them all. Worst scenario though, a Colt .22 Officer's Model Match that was taken was used in a murder in Boston. I never got it back, the judge in the case was a Colt collector.

Bernie was the best, a true gentleman. I was shocked when it happened.

What's your interest now, just Lugers? What type?

Talk to you later,

Jerry

[minigun]

Any way to find "Satan" and try and ask to buy or find out (to track down) the other parts to the gun? Long shot, but maybe??????

[Jerry L.]

Hi minigun,

My friend Bob tried several times, she won't budge, she's a real hardcase. She may have dumped it in the river, a very vindictive lady I understand. I was going to try and pick up the parts and have a shooter, but I might just try to swap for something (A nice P.38?) or sell it. I know if I could get the original parts back I wouldn't shoot it, it's too nice.

Take care,

Jerry