1917 Erfurt

FNorm · 06-26-2010, 07:13 PM

Back to Lugers!

I was at the Colorado Gun Collectors annual show, with another Forum member. Ya meet the nicest people here. We looked at Navy's, Simson's, Swiss, all kinds of stuff. And I learned a lot. But right at the last my new friend spotted this one. I was slightly vision impaired having caught a dog paw to the eye the day before.

A 1917 Erfurt all matching inc. mag. for less than $1500! I took it home. It was so filthy/cruddy, I stripped it down and took it outside with a can of carb cleaner. I think it came out pretty well.

But a few questions: I cleaned the grips with Murphy's oil soap, and then gave them a coat of linseed oil. The left came out fine. The right is blotchy. They are both numbered to the gun, but obviously came from different parts of the tree. The right is a little chewed up, and looks like it may have been used in a spring clip type holster. Another coat of oil, or redo with the paint remover?
Or leave it alone? I can see where late in the war, things did get a little sloppy. The checkering is not uniform.

I've examined the mag bottom under 10X. At first it looked re-stamped. Now I'm not sure, just chewed up. It is an Erfurt proofed mag, with a G suffix. comments?

FN

policeluger · 06-26-2010, 08:35 PM

If you want your money back, I can send a check out Monday. I'll even pay for shipping.

lugerholsterrepair · 06-26-2010, 08:55 PM

Fred, Nice pistol..No matter how the mag got that way, it's a tad buggered for sure. Almost has to be an attempt at renumbering but the suffix is good.
Great find!

Jerry Burney

MikeP · 06-26-2010, 11:25 PM

Too bad they had to screw up the mag.That is a very smooth 1917.
I would leave the grip alone.

Aaron · 06-27-2010, 01:40 AM

Mag is definitely renumbered.

Norme · 06-27-2010, 07:16 AM

Hi Fred, The gun sure cleaned up nice. The grips don't look too bad to me, and I don't believe that mag has been renumbered. It's a correct Erfurt mag with one inspection mark, as is proper for 1917, and has the same suffix and identical font as the gun. Best regards, Norm

newluger · 06-27-2010, 10:01 AM

Norme,

You commented that you don't believe that the mag has been renumbered. I am fairly new to all of this. To me it appears that the mag has been renumbered. What am I not seeing?

Thanks
Newluger

sheepherder · 06-27-2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FNorm

I was slightly vision impaired having caught a dog paw to the eye the day before.

Ouch! Had that happen to me...

Quote:

A 1917 Erfurt all matching inc. mag. for less than $1500!

Not much less, I bet...

FNorm · 06-27-2010, 11:06 AM

Well, the metal is good. The proofs are correct and where they should be. The inspection stamps are C/?, C/O, C/ P. The first letter could be B, D, or F. 'Central Powers" pg 442 has the same ID problem with numbers close to this one

While I'm not qualified to rate, the finish is somewhere in the low 90%. One grip may be beech. It has a more yellow cast to it on the backside. Did they mix grips towards the end?

In the photos the mag definitely looks buggered. I did clean that with the wood soap and a nail brush. Yet the proof and the suffix are correct. So that's OK with me.

Lessee... I'll probably never see a 1910; I have a 1914 and a 1914LP, so that leaves me only 5 more Erfurts to go!

PS, Yeah, Post. Scratched corneas are never fun! Dobers do spar with their front feet to knock down prey. Now I use safety glasses when we play.

FN

alanint · 06-27-2010, 04:02 PM

Someone tried to "freshen" the numbers, which were probably filled with grease (As Norm pointed out in his initial cleaning of the gun). They used a pin or a sharp object, which now makes them look altered.
I say correct matching mag, which previous owner should have just left alone.

Aaron · 06-27-2010, 08:29 PM

I don't see how this can be called a matching mag. The photo clearly shows that the last number was originally a 3 or an 8 which has been badly over stamped.

Norme · 06-27-2010, 08:49 PM

Hi Aaron, I believe that the treatment with Murphy's Oil Soap caused the exposed grain in the bottom of the struck numbers to rise, making them hard to read. As you probably know, walnut gun stocks are alternately wetted and sanded to remove the raised "whiskers" prior to sealing. I was present when FNorm purchased this gun, and can tell you that the magazine looked very different before cleaning. Regards, Norm

06-26-2010, 07:13 PM	#1
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	1917 Erfurt Back to Lugers! I was at the Colorado Gun Collectors annual show, with another Forum member. Ya meet the nicest people here. We looked at Navy's, Simson's, Swiss, all kinds of stuff. And I learned a lot. But right at the last my new friend spotted this one. I was slightly vision impaired having caught a dog paw to the eye the day before. A 1917 Erfurt all matching inc. mag. for less than $1500! I took it home. It was so filthy/cruddy, I stripped it down and took it outside with a can of carb cleaner. I think it came out pretty well. But a few questions: I cleaned the grips with Murphy's oil soap, and then gave them a coat of linseed oil. The left came out fine. The right is blotchy. They are both numbered to the gun, but obviously came from different parts of the tree. The right is a little chewed up, and looks like it may have been used in a spring clip type holster. Another coat of oil, or redo with the paint remover? Or leave it alone? I can see where late in the war, things did get a little sloppy. The checkering is not uniform. I've examined the mag bottom under 10X. At first it looked re-stamped. Now I'm not sure, just chewed up. It is an Erfurt proofed mag, with a G suffix. comments? FN Attached Thumbnails Attached Images Last edited by FNorm; 06-26-2010 at 07:45 PM. Reason: add

06-26-2010, 08:55 PM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,879 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,429 Posts	Fred, Nice pistol..No matter how the mag got that way, it's a tad buggered for sure. Almost has to be an attempt at renumbering but the suffix is good. Great find! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-27-2010, 11:06 AM	#9
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Well, the metal is good. The proofs are correct and where they should be. The inspection stamps are C/?, C/O, C/ P. The first letter could be B, D, or F. 'Central Powers" pg 442 has the same ID problem with numbers close to this one While I'm not qualified to rate, the finish is somewhere in the low 90%. One grip may be beech. It has a more yellow cast to it on the backside. Did they mix grips towards the end? In the photos the mag definitely looks buggered. I did clean that with the wood soap and a nail brush. Yet the proof and the suffix are correct. So that's OK with me. Lessee... I'll probably never see a 1910; I have a 1914 and a 1914LP, so that leaves me only 5 more Erfurts to go! PS, Yeah, Post. Scratched corneas are never fun! Dobers do spar with their front feet to knock down prey. Now I use safety glasses when we play. FN Last edited by FNorm; 06-27-2010 at 11:12 AM. Reason: add

06-26-2010, 08:35 PM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	If you want your money back, I can send a check out Monday. I'll even pay for shipping.

06-26-2010, 11:25 PM	#4
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	Too bad they had to screw up the mag.That is a very smooth 1917. I would leave the grip alone.

06-27-2010, 01:40 AM	#5
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Mag is definitely renumbered.

06-27-2010, 07:16 AM	#6
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Fred, The gun sure cleaned up nice. The grips don't look too bad to me, and I don't believe that mag has been renumbered. It's a correct Erfurt mag with one inspection mark, as is proper for 1917, and has the same suffix and identical font as the gun. Best regards, Norm

06-27-2010, 10:01 AM	#7
newluger User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Franklin Tennessee Posts: 119 Thanks: 22 Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts	Norme, You commented that you don't believe that the mag has been renumbered. I am fairly new to all of this. To me it appears that the mag has been renumbered. What am I not seeing? Thanks Newluger

06-27-2010, 04:02 PM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Someone tried to "freshen" the numbers, which were probably filled with grease (As Norm pointed out in his initial cleaning of the gun). They used a pin or a sharp object, which now makes them look altered. I say correct matching mag, which previous owner should have just left alone.

06-27-2010, 08:29 PM	#11
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	I don't see how this can be called a matching mag. The photo clearly shows that the last number was originally a 3 or an 8 which has been badly over stamped.

06-27-2010, 08:49 PM	#12
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Aaron, I believe that the treatment with Murphy's Oil Soap caused the exposed grain in the bottom of the struck numbers to rise, making them hard to read. As you probably know, walnut gun stocks are alternately wetted and sanded to remove the raised "whiskers" prior to sealing. I was present when FNorm purchased this gun, and can tell you that the magazine looked very different before cleaning. Regards, Norm