Clarification: K & G Dates

juliuscaesar31544 · 12-01-2015, 01:01 PM

I'm familiar with the generally accepted reason given for substituting the letters K and G for 1934 and 1935, but, try as hard as I might, I cannot see how this would fool even the most imbecilic bureaucrat.
Can someone help me out?
Thanks
Dan

hayhugh · 12-01-2015, 01:08 PM

Who you calling an imbecile?

Edward Tinker · 12-01-2015, 01:38 PM

Dan, you have to realize that they were just throwing people off. Besides the K & G being dates, the names of the company were hidden by codes. This was across the spectrum of almost all businesses. The allieis were aware of this deception, but since it was designed to just throw them off the trail, it worked IMHO.

juliuscaesar31544 · 12-01-2015, 05:36 PM

I appreciate the response to my question. You've reinforced what I've thought all along.
Happy Holidays
Dan

4 Scale · 12-03-2015, 10:56 PM

The best seller "In the Garden of Beasts" by Eric Larson describes Germany through the eyes of American Ambassador Dodd and his family during the 1930s. The book notes the American consul in Stuttgart (50 miles from Mauser/Oberndorf) sent a secret communique to the American Embassy in Berlin, September 1933, saying that Mauser had sharply increased arms production. In August 1934 Dodd's correspondence includes a cable to Washington stating that Germany was re-arming "feverishly".

Whether the K and G and manufacturer code subterfuge confused anyone I don't know, and I see no reference in the book to Lugers specifically, but clearly the U.S. Govt. was generally aware of German rearmament as early as 1933-34 time frame.

I highly recommend the book to anyone interested in 1930s Germany.

I had wondered the same thing myself and your question made me dig out the book and search for "Mauser", thanks

Sergio Natali · 12-04-2015, 03:25 AM

The original question about K and G codes was absolutely right, perhaps that was some sort of "open secret", but let's not forget to consider that at the time spy planes and especially spy satellites didn't exist.

kurusu · 12-04-2015, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

The original question about K and G codes was absolutely right, perhaps that was some sort of "open secret", but let's not forget to consider that at the time spy planes and especially spy satellites didn't exist.

Neither did the "allies" exist at the time. Everybody was expecting Hitler to go after the soviets so they were turning a blind eye to the German rearmament.

juliuscaesar31544 · 12-04-2015, 08:47 PM

Thanks to all of you for your helpful responses. I have read In The Garden Of Beasts. Terrific book.

alanint · 12-05-2015, 11:31 AM

Let's also keep in mind that these were simpler times. There was no mass communication, nor sources for research. Gentlemen did not read another's mail. These codes may have had some deception effect, since there were few ways of verifying what was going on.

12-01-2015, 01:01 PM	#1
juliuscaesar31544 User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Clarification: K & G Dates I'm familiar with the generally accepted reason given for substituting the letters K and G for 1934 and 1935, but, try as hard as I might, I cannot see how this would fool even the most imbecilic bureaucrat. Can someone help me out? Thanks Dan

12-01-2015, 01:38 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,928 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,525 Times in 2,090 Posts	Dan, you have to realize that they were just throwing people off. Besides the K & G being dates, the names of the company were hidden by codes. This was across the spectrum of almost all businesses. The allieis were aware of this deception, but since it was designed to just throw them off the trail, it worked IMHO. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-01-2015, 05:36 PM	#4
juliuscaesar31544 User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank You, Ed I appreciate the response to my question. You've reinforced what I've thought all along. Happy Holidays Dan

12-04-2015, 03:25 AM	#6
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	The original question about K and G codes was absolutely right, perhaps that was some sort of "open secret", but let's not forget to consider that at the time spy planes and especially spy satellites didn't exist. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

12-04-2015, 08:47 PM	#8
juliuscaesar31544 User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank You Thanks to all of you for your helpful responses. I have read In The Garden Of Beasts. Terrific book.

12-01-2015, 01:08 PM	#2
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 893 Thanks: 856 Thanked 513 Times in 275 Posts	Who you calling an imbecile?

12-03-2015, 10:56 PM	#5
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	The best seller "In the Garden of Beasts" by Eric Larson describes Germany through the eyes of American Ambassador Dodd and his family during the 1930s. The book notes the American consul in Stuttgart (50 miles from Mauser/Oberndorf) sent a secret communique to the American Embassy in Berlin, September 1933, saying that Mauser had sharply increased arms production. In August 1934 Dodd's correspondence includes a cable to Washington stating that Germany was re-arming "feverishly". Whether the K and G and manufacturer code subterfuge confused anyone I don't know, and I see no reference in the book to Lugers specifically, but clearly the U.S. Govt. was generally aware of German rearmament as early as 1933-34 time frame. I highly recommend the book to anyone interested in 1930s Germany. I had wondered the same thing myself and your question made me dig out the book and search for "Mauser", thanks

12-05-2015, 11:31 AM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Let's also keep in mind that these were simpler times. There was no mass communication, nor sources for research. Gentlemen did not read another's mail. These codes may have had some deception effect, since there were few ways of verifying what was going on.