German military ammo velocity
 

What was the muzzle velocity of German military ammo during both wars? One source states 115 grain bullet at 1,400 fps. I was thinking the Germans used 124 grain bullets.

TIA

Sgt Art; I was told by Lapua that the ammo they made for the P.08 was 1045 fps and is still their standard load.
Lonnie

I have a listing for some 1943 German ammo that used a 98gr bullet and did reach a velocity average of 1401fps...

Hi Art:

The pre-WWI DWM Owner's Manual lists the velocity of the 123gr, ammo at around 1075fps.

There seems to be some variation in the methods used then verses now in testing velocity. Years ago I shot some original DWM commercial ammo and it tested in spec at an average of around 1050fps or so (if memory serves).

I'm going to be testing some WWI military ammo shortly, and will post my results here.

Sieger

Art, in Fred Datig's book 'The Luger Pistol' on page 198 he gives the following info; 9m/m Luger Bullet Weight 124 grains with a velocity of 1250 fps. Headstamp was DWM 480C. Unfortunately he does not tie this info to either WWI or WW2.

This is from the "For What it's Worth Department". I have recorded (and I can't remember where I found the data) the original Georg Luger P.08 Patrone Cartridge Bullet was a Truncated Cone, Weight was 8 grammes (123.44 grains) and had a muzzle velocity of 327 m/sec (1072.8 ft/sec).

Because of the spelling of grams, my guess it was a Walter Book!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Herb:
<strong>Art, in Fred Datig's book 'The Luger Pistol' on page 198 he gives the following info; 9m/m Luger Bullet Weight 124 grains with a velocity of 1250 fps. Headstamp was DWM 480C. Unfortunately he does not tie this info to either WWI or WW2.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Herb:

I've heard Datig sited before on this subject, but have never found figures like this in any of the original German texts I've examined.

The 480C round you mention is the same one Frank is also discussing, as it was the original DWM TC 9mm round.

Again, I should be able to test some original ammo in a month or so. This won't really be conclusive either, because of the age of this ammo, but it should at least answer some of my basic questions regarding it.

Sieger

Hi,

John Walter lists some info in his 1977 'Luger' book:

8.0 gram 9mm -&gt; 345 meters per second in P08
(123grain -&gt; 1131ft/s)

8.0 gram 9mm -&gt; 355 meters per second in M04
(123grain -&gt; 1164ft/s)

Hi:

From Joachim Goetz text "Die Pistole 08" copywrite 1985 (German Text).

He has written a full chapter on die Pistolenpatrone 08, complete with some reloading suggestions (approximately 10 pages of test).

Here is what he sites as the original specs:
Stand 1908 (Period 1908)

8 gram projectile from a 100 mm barrel/327m per second.

Sieger

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by G. van Vlimmeren:
<strong>Hi,

John Walter lists some info in his 1977 'Luger' book:

8.0 gram 9mm -&gt; 345 meters per second in P08
(123grain -&gt; 1131ft/s)

8.0 gram 9mm -&gt; 355 meters per second in M04
(123grain -&gt; 1164ft/s)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi:

I have a 1986 copywrite version of this book. In it he discusses ammo, but I can't find the specs. you have sited.

Would you give me a page site please?

Sieger

As some of you are aware, I have been researching the original ballistics. One of the problems is the method of velocity measurement then as opposed to now.

The oldest known method is the ballistic pendalum. I performed this experiment as my college physics project. (Here, I am giving away my age. Fancy packing a revolver to the physics lab today!) Carefully done, this method can be accurate to within 3 or 4% and measures the velocity about six feet from the muzzle as is done today with a chronograph.

At the turn of the century, around the time of the Parabellum's youth, the method involved the bullet breaking a tape five feet (Or roughly the same distace if working in the metric system.) from the muzzle and breaking a second tape 55 feet from the muzzle. The time interval was measured by a falling weight. This method was quite accurate, but one must realize that what it measured is the average velocity from 5 feet to 55 feet. If muzzle velocity specifically is desired it must be estinmmated from the data.

Sieger,

On the 1977 edition on page 25 there is a list of calibres, velocities, etc... of a number of period guns including the P08 and the M04

What`s the BC of that 123grains bullet?

Regards

Hornady lists a BC of .145 for their 124 gr FMJ round nose bullet.

Thanx Thor
I asked that question b`coz I`ve always been puzzled with the discrepancy on 9mm FMJ bullets`
BCs.
Examples:
Sierra 125grs FMJ----.160
Win. USA 124grs FMJ--.167
Federal 124grs FMJ---.154
Remington 124grs FMJ-.184
Hornady 124 FMJ RN---.145
Hornady 124 FMJ FP---.174

And I thought they`re all patterned after the good ol` 8 gramm Ogivalgeschoss,ja? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

On a side note,take a look at those Hornadys How come a Flat point bullet has better BC than a round nose bullet? Comments?

I am amazed to see that no one got to the range with a chronograph, some vintage ammo & a P08 !!

It would be interesting to compare ``live results`` with the specs stated in the various references........

Cold weather up here makes it impossible for me at this time to do such velocity testing.....

I recently ran some ``balistic vest testing`` a little while ago. Part of a work project on some Level II & IIA LE Vests. I went into the ``vintage ammo``bin to include some ``REAL`` 9mm ammo.......
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn3541.jpg

2 rounds caught my attention, headstamps read:

dnh St+ 8 43
kam St= 20 43
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dscn3538.jpg

One bullet lost......the other recovered one weights 99.5 gr, has a steel jacket but velocity is unknown. Quite an impressive performance in the testing........

I know it doesnt help much on the velocity issue........

MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />