1911 DWM I.D. & history help please
 

S/N: 5686e on frame under barrel. Suffix deciphered thanks to Ed Tinker's markings post, would never have guessed the character under the s/n was an "e". Have scoured this site and other sources but still can't find a match.
Markings:script DWM on toggle top. 1911 on barrel top. Frame r/s, (l>r) Script "E" maybe w/ crown on top. "D" maybe w/ crown on top. Eagle maybe w/ crown on top, wings and legs vertical, not angled. Lanyard boss on rear. Took bunch of pics but they're too crappy to post even if I knew how. Can anyone fill me in on anything about this piece? I consider it's condition to be very good even though it has 1" long minor pitting on l/s of barrel front. Toggle does not hold open. "86" stamped various other places. 8,84 stamped near S/N. Action is very crisp.
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
bobkap

Hi Bob, You have what sounds like a 1911 DWM military Luger, the standard sidearm of the Imperial German army. In 1911 these guns were manufactured without a hold-open, although many were retrofitted during 1914. For opinions about condition we need to see pictures. Regards, Norm

Anything like this?
Piet

Hi Piet,
There was a first contract (order) about delivery of 50000 P08 between the German Government and the private gun maker (supplier) DWM. The contract was fulfilled end march 1911. Your P08 was one of the last of this contract or one of the first of the second contract.
If it came with a matched magazine you will see that it still has the large numbers but also the "e" suffix and the spare magazine got a point behind the numbers. That changed with about 9xxx e. At latest with the "f" suffix the small numbers were used and the spare magazine got a +.
The first acceptance mark left from the power proof stamp on the receiver is showing the small crowned "E" in the large crowned "E". We see/find that only on first issue Lugers.
Perhaps there is a unit mark on the grip panel.
Regards Klaus

Good eye Klaus. Piet's Luger is the first I have seen with the small letter/large letter overstamp that was not a first issue. I will have to look closer at other guns.

1911 dwm
 

Piet,
Thanks for your reply.
The left and right symbols are identical, but the center is different; looks like a backward"E" with "U" attached and vertical line down the center of the "U", crown on top.. Took some fairly good pics so now I must figure out how to put them up.
Rgds,
bobkap

Klaus,

Look into the first posts by Piet for the facinating, unique history of this particular 1911 Luger...

If it has not the hold open added it should be a Luger of the Bavarian or Württemberg army.
Alanint, my English is so poor that I sometimes do not understand all or I oversee something.

Klaus
Regardless of what language you know or don't know, you do an excellent job in sharing your vast knowledge with us. Thank you. Bill

Klaus,
You did not miss anything. When Piet joined the forum some time ago, he posted about this particular Luger and its history. I was merely inviting you to look back into the first posts Piet made to the forum, (you can do so by clicking on Piet's name and look into the posts made months ago). The family history of this particular Luger is very interesting..

Klaus, es ist ein Deutscher-Sudwest Afrikaner Landespolizei Pistole.

Hi Klaus, There is some confusion on this thread. There are two different guns being discussed. There is Bob's 1911 #5686e, and Piet's gun which is pictured. Regards, Norm

Bill, thanks for your kind words!
Alanint and George, I remember the L.P. Luger with mint holster, box of cartridges and the very interesting story.
Norme, that helps me to understand my own problems with the Lugers we talk about- thanks!
Piet are you living in South Africa or Namibia? I have some family in both countries and hope to be there in late spring next year. Great nature there- Norway and South Africa/ Namibia are my favorites.
Regards Klaus

Bob,
Sorry--- I thought I would help with a photo because you said you have problems with it and it sounded by the description like the one I have. Did not want to steal your thunder! It will help if you could take a photo of the mark that you describe - the guys on the forum will tell you quickly what you want to know. Try a little chalk on the mark - it shows well on a photo and can be removed with a soft brush.
Klaus thanks for the additional info - I live in South Africa.
Piet