My New 1917 DWM Luger questions
 

Hello!
I am new to this forum and was hoping someone could help me with what kind of Luger I have just purchased.

It’s labeled 1917 (no 1920 so I’m assuming this was illegal to own after the whole confiscation happened) and it’s a DWM. I believe the proof marks mean it was a military Luger.

The markings I don’t understand are the ones on the trigger guard. They almost look like an RC with a crown and then under that a letter A with a crown.

I also noticed it has a seat safety installed which was more of a police modification but I am not seeing any police markings. The holster it came with is also a police model holster that was matched to the Luger.

All parts seem to be matching.

The magazines have matching numbers but I know the 1917 Luger came with wood bottoms. Maybe the magazines were updated? I also have the second magazine.

This Luger also came with bring back paperwork from a US soldier that states the Luger (with serial number) and holster.

I’m just trying to figure out the markings and a possible story.

Based on what is seen in the pictures. It is indeed a DWM 1917 military pistol then pressed into police service after WW1, but without a 1920 property stamp. You have what is widely considered to be the best magazine for it-a Schmeisser-Heanel-with a police-style numbering indicating it was the primary magazine for police service of the gun as the serial is matched to it as well. Looks to be reblued or the strawing is almost gone on all parts that are visible (takedown lever and trigger most obviously should be a golden color or more of a bare steel color instead of blued like the rest of the gun as the pictures seem to show, it could also look that way in photos from bad lighting). It should be a fantastic shooter piece if that is the case as the reblue kills collectible value for it.

Welcome to the forum and read the FAQ, accessible at the top of every page. It has tons of good info. It can also show you some of the other picture angles you’ll want to post for better evaluation of it.

Reblued yes, but probably done during police rework, so no huge deal. Formerly an artillery model, re-barreled. A nice gun with it's own group of specialty collectors.
dju

Thanks for the quick replies guys!
Wouldn’t the pistol have to have the 1920 stamp for it to go into police service? Otherwise that would mean this pistol was never turned in from what I’ve read.

Also does anyone know what the markings (attached) mean?

Figured I’d show the bring back paperwork also

Welcome to the forum.

No, all pistols did not receive the 1920 marking before or after they went to the police.
The marking was only applied for a few months in 1920/21.

The marking on the front of the TG is the "revisions commission stamp" and the normal Erfurt inspection crown/letter.

The TP on the barrel is the mark applied when the barrel was replaced by the Technical Police organization(armorer) and the eagle is the firing proof of the Weimar era.

Check out the FAQ for answers and info, explaining these and other markings.

Nice to have the paper with the pistol number, matching mags, and holster!

It is a "sear" safety.

Also a good idea to include full left and right views of the entire pistol, and the top of the chamber, front of frame.

Your close ups are good, but sometimes there is info hidden in the "forest" - all the ones posted show "trees". ;)

I will take a picture tomorrow of the full pistol

I am afraid I disagree with this - when refurbed, my experience is that they were reblued, just like it was new, so anything you see as reblued that shouldn't be, was done by a NON armory...

Please change how you think of the 1920 - someone told you wrong. It was placed there to show it was gov't property. Private purchase and many tens of thousands of guns were not marked.

The 1920 has nothing to do with police service

Not all police guns were unit marked
Not all police guns received much in the way of marking (the TP shows the barrel was replaced) - perhaps it went back to DWM for refurb and received a 7.65mm then went to the police.
The magazine is a police magazine - it could have been police, or it could have been matched up after the war

Ed
.

The barrel and receiver appear to have come from an Artillery Luger. The notch on the top, front of the receiver, and the remnants of the mounting area for the LP.08 rear tangent sight are visible in the pics. My guess is that the original barrel was turned down and shortened, and a new barrel band/sight block applied. If we had some extreme closeups of the barrel band/front sight area of the muzzle, including a shot from the front end so we can see the crown, that might provide a clue.

More pictures to come later today!

Does anyone know when Schmeisser magazines started being made? I’m just trying to figure out if this pistol was possibly used during the WW2 era.

Before WWII, it is quite likely that this pistol saw service in WWII.

BB, DJU & ET, I agree with Lifer that rather than the old orig LPO8 barrel being removed when it entered police service in the 1920s, the orig barrel was shortened and the tangent sight was removed by the Technical Police (TP marking on right side of barrel) and a sear safety was added. The matching Haenel/Schmeisser mag may a been added at that time or some time later in the 1930s. TH

Tom is no doubt correct. We need some good photos of that barrel, including the front sight band.

Here are the pictures of the barrel. Hope these work for you guys!

Here are some more pictures

And some more. Hope these pictures are better!

A fully matching police rig down to the magazines, took, and holster...but definitely reblued from a non-armory. I’m not sure how other collectors would see this but outside of that reblue, it’s a very nice get.

I'm not convinced it is not a refinish from its time when the police sear safety was added.
The sear safety rivet is in the white, which is a pretty good sign that it is NOT a post period reblue.

This may represent a 1932/3 or even later addition of the sear safety, a time when a hot blue of all parts would have been possible.

I agree that the blue ejector and td lever, etc. are an anomaly one does not usually see.

I’m also curious about those markings on the inside of the grip. Still trying to figure out if the barrel was cutdown also!

Seems to me that it is a 1917 Artillery DWM, rebarreled, not simply shortened. Interesting that they used the full serial number inside the grips. The other marks may be from a previous gun that they were on?
An interesting piece to the Police Luger collector.
dju

The barrel has been shortened and the sight band re-installed. A really nice job.
A tip of the hat to David (ithacaartist).
Ron

3" barrel for a "baby" luger and how it is done:

Awesome thanks for all the input guys! I’ve learned a lot so far. I just wish I knew when and what police were using this Luger. Is there a good chance this was used later by the Nazis? I’m just trying to find a logical story to how this pistol became a bring home from WW2.

Yes, it is quite logical that it served in WWI, the Weimar police,
and after 1934 the police were still the "Police" but you can call them
Nazi if you want.

If it was/is a WWII bring back, of course it saw service until souveniered!

Don is correct that the frame is Erfurt while the receiver is DWM.

The C/RC (Revisions Commission) stamp indicates a part that the factory inspectors found a non-critical fault with but was passed as serviceable by RC inspectors. In the event of failure of such a part, the RC inspector would accept the responsibility. The C/RC is more often seen on Erfurt parts than on DWM. Below is an Erfurt receiver also marked C/RC.

https://i.imgur.com/ChbWw6e.jpg

Were most Lugers around 1932/3 refinished the way mine is or is there a good possibility it was done by non-armory?

I also posted a picture (post #16) of the inside of my grips and they had some interesting markings. Does anyone know what those are and mean?

So does that mean the frame was replaced or an Erfurt RC inspector inspected this DWM possibly after WW1?

The receiver was made by Erfurt, the "defect or variance" was noted and either corrected or passed by the RC at Erfurt, at the time the pistol was first made.

Corrected: the receiver is DWM, the mid link(and perhaps the entire toggle) is DWM and is a later replacement.

The pistol is an assemblage of parts, so asking question is fine- but don't expect any definitive answer about when it was done or who
re-worked or refinished it. JMHO.

I thought the markings on the side was for military DWM?

I read these markings are DWM

I also read that DWM made most of the Artillery Lugers. Maybe my references are incorrect

Your receiver is DWM. Compare the DWM Eagle stamp on your Luger to the Eagle on my Erfurt receiver.

DWM did make far more Artillery Lugers than Erfurt. Erfurt only made Artillery Lugers one year: 1914. Jan Still says that only 23,000 Erfurt Artillery Lugers were made. Manufactured in blocks of 10,000 with the first block not having a suffix letter, the highest serial number Erfurt Artillery Luger will have a "b" suffix letter. DWM made them from 1914 until 1918.

It is interesting that many DWM Artillery Lugers have barrels supplied by Erfurt as indicated by the Prussian Eagle - the Eagle used by Erfurt inspectors - on the barrels near the right side of the receiver.

Is my frame a Erfurt then? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to figure out my lugers story. Been learning a lot from you guys

Erfurt
 

Your frame has an "RC" stamp on the trigger guard, so it is an Erfurt frame. The "RC" stamp was almost never (or never) used on DWM pistols as they were a private firm and agreed to deliver pistols without flaws of any kind. The military arsenal at Erfurt could pass pistols with minor flaws with a government inspector signing off on it.

Hi Alex,
I'm of the opinion that your gun is an Erfurt with some replaced and renumbered parts from a DWM. Specifically the center toggle, side plate and possibly some other small parts.
Regards, Norm

I did a lot of reading and it makes sense. A lot of the artillery Lugers were destroyed or converted for police use. Is there a way to tell when the Erfurt frame was made?

Not exactly, quick answer is 1914 to 1918, since it has the artillery sight cut on top of the chamber.
If the upper matches the lower, the date on the chamber is the year it was made.

The OP frame is definitely Erfurt, it has Erfurt eagle not DWM.
It also has the Erfurt inspection on the trigger guard, something that DWM did not do.