1906 -Is this real or 'enhanced'
 

Hi all,

I had taken a hiatus from collecting for about a year and am now getting back into it. I have developed an interest in some of the earlier lugers.

So now my question. I found this on GB and would like to get opinions on it: 1906 .
I am concerned that it is re-blued or in some way 'enhanced'.

What makes me think it is possibly re-blued is:
1) the very shallow C/B on the left side.
2) the pits seem to show blue.
3) some of the parts have so little, if any wear.
4) some of the parts do show wear, so the wear on the pistol does not seem even.

I don't think the lanyard is original; but that does not bother me.

If you guys think it is genuine, I plan to bid on it. Please don't get into a bidding war with me

thanks,
Richard

I share your concerns. A very nice looking gun but a tough call on the points you made. Also no halos, etc. And is that a crack on the frame, just ahead of the right grip panel, top point?
$95 shipping and no 3 day inspection? Ouch.
dju

Richard, it is a GENUINE Luger... and it is just my opinion, (and apparently the opinion of DJU) but I have the same concerns you have about it being re-blued, for the same reasons.

The fuzziness of the proofs and match numbers make me nervous.

Is anyone else concerned about that line radiating forward from the right grip upper point, or is it just my imagination?

At the risk of disagreeing with the above reviews, I think the gun is good and in very nice condition. The barrel proofs are absolutely authentic showing well defined proper halos. The frame ears and grip straps do exhibit "freckling" but I do not believe there is evidence of it being reblued, just some pitting due to improper care/storage.
The only problem that I see that you might encounter is if the reserve is set unrealistically high.
Ron

About as nice an authentically finished 9mm New Model Parabellum as you are likely to find.

--Dwight

Looks like a crack to me.:eek:

Oh, come-on John...I know you are being funny. I know it is a real luger.

I guess, what I should have said was is this an 'enhanced' luger or an 'honest' one. :D

Is this the picture you are saying looks like a crack?

The downward sloping jagged line from the grip?


Attachment 59092

One of the things that concerned me was this stamp.
I thought it looked way to shallow.

Is this normal for an 'honest' DWM luger from 1906?
I would have expected the stamp to be deeper since they were in a commercial market and under little pressure to turn them out fast -as in WWI.


Attachment 59094

Don' get me wrong...I do like the thing; I just don't want to waste my time, or money, if it is doctored.

I was thinking of putting in a bid and "c'est la vie".

I think it is just the corner created at the intersection of the flat surface below with the curved surface above. My Lugers have it.

In my opinion this finish has been freshened, perhaps not a total reblue....maybe a cold blue touch-up. When I look at the rear of the frame where the rear toggle strikes the frame when shot, this looks "freshened" to me. Other areas are also bothersome to me....finish wise.

I think it is just a piece of thread or lint that snagged on the grip and is soaked with gun oil... seems an unlikely place for a frame crack. No firing stress in that area.

Apparently our group can't come to a consensus on the finish without better photos or handling the firearm in person. All those who have spoken up are pretty well versed in determining whether a gun is refinished... yet we are split on the originality of the finish. Can we get better photos?

Me, too.

Maybe John and Don M. are correct, and it is a "ledge"; it does "look" like a crack- a quick look in person would settle that.

Good question to ask the seller, just to establish a reference!

You know, that's what keeps this group interesting. Diverse opinions on the same photos and all expressed without malice. Wish facebook were so civil...
dju

It also looks like a crack to me.

But also agree that it's in an odd place.

I agree with Ron Wood, it is a correct and original finish Luger. Only a hands on inspection will be the last word however. It looks like a crack but is 99.9% not a crack. It is a machining ledge that all of that era Lugers have. If you have a reference collection you can check yours and see they all have that ledge. The proof mark is also ok and fine. That proof was struck before the rust blue and that one is within the range of normal appearance and depth. The barrel serial and proofs were struck after the blue was on and those too have the right look and halos. Nice original gun. Good luck!

I'll be... You are right. I went and check, and sure enough there was the ledge. Let's call it an unfortunate picture.

This demonstrates how important it can be to have a gun in-hand. The pic gives the ledge a very crack-like appearance. Several of us stand corrected!

This picture made me think it's had touch-ups at the very least.

All I see are scratches. dings and marks where something has marred/removed the blue. Note the raised edge around the takedown spring hole...I would think a refinish would certainly have obliterated that. But I could be wrong.
Ron

This looks like the after effects of a Birchwood-Casey Cold Bluing Pen. It will blue the spots, but not nearly as deep of bluing as factory/hot bluing.

Cold bluing frequently has a distinctive smell to it, so again a hands-on experience will tell all. But then realistically what difference will it make at that point?
dju

Hi Guys,

Well the luger did not sell and has been relisted. I have read through all of the posts on this and found all the analysis insightful. I know I have learned a lot.

Even though there is no consensus, I really do appreciate all the work you guys did to help me out.

Frankly, you guys are great!!!

I am still ambivalent on trying to win the relisted auction. I did bid the previous auction up to 2K.
I have no idea of a realistic dollar amount on this pistol but I suspect the reserve is much higher than I am thinking the pistol is worth.

Any opinions on value are also appreciated.

I wouldn't be surprised if the reserve is $3,500 or $4,000... you could always ask them. My experience watching other auctions of theirs is that they ask too much and hope to catch someone with more money than knowledge.

Was there a consensus that this was a crack in the metal?

Yes, and it was "no,it is not a crack- it just looks like one".

It is Not a crack. It is a ledge of metal that All of that type of Luger have in that position.

Yeah, I kinda thought they were fishing for a "sucker". :evilgrin:

Maybe, however, if I get serious I can contact them and negotiate. Can't hurt.

I put the value of the piece at around 2500; but, I am not really a good judge of value.

I've not read all the previous comments, but I love those early lugers, and I like this one, I don't think it was reblued.
The only drawback for me would be that crack sort of thing.
This is one of those cases where a hands on inspection wold be necessary.

Well, I emailed the seller about the "crack".

He says it is a defect in the metal.
I am speaking about the fine jagged line in the center of the red circle.

You mean this crack?

Attachment 59384

Or this one? :rolleyes:

Attachment 59385

Seller doesn't known what he's talking about. All Lugers have that. Learnt that in this thread though. :o

I am no expert; but, the one you show is not jagged. The one in the picture I posted is jagged.
The one in your picture slopes downward. The one in the picture I posted has a slightly upward direction.

I am just pointing these pictures for discussion and not trying to argue. I really want the pistol to be "right-as-rain".

It is just the lower edge of the relief cut for the grip. It appears jagged probably because it has picked up a few nicks in the sharp edge. It is not a crack.
Ron

Ok...yeah, I think you guys are right. What appears to be a crack is really the "ledge" and it is just banged up a bit.

I have put in a bid on the pistol. The seller's reserve must be way high as this is the third time that I know of that the pistol has been listed. It may well have been listed a few other times before I discovered it.

You can search under "completed sales" and find a complete bid history if you search the key words in the title line of the listing. Always interesting to see how much would not buy the gun.
dju