Opinions as to Martz .45 Luger value
 

I suppose the title is self-explanatory. A friend of mine has two John Martz .45 Lugers. One is a 4" and the other is a 6", but both have Navy-style rear sights/toggles and are numbered together. Both are unfired and in about 99% condition. I've been trying to talk my friend into parting ways with them [easier said than done] and we both wondered if anyone on this forum might have some input. They don't come up at auction very often. Thanks for any insight, and otherwise, enjoy the gun porn.

A .45 cal Martz 'Navy' Luger??? :confused:

Very nice! :thumbup:

... and look at those grips...

JVM grips
 

The grips were probably made by George Sarkiskian (Sp.?) I couldn't even say his name much less spell it?...:jumper:..... But his talent was outstanding! And I really liked and admired him! I also made several sets of 45 grips for John, among his other offerings.. But they were ALWAYS bordered & checkered by George! ... His name, or my name, (put there by George!) might be on the backside... BUT, I'm pretty sure on who made the mag bottoms though!....:jumper:..... Although I didn't put that nick on the one in the grain spot?...:eek:... Brings back a lot on memories.. Never knew what the finished product looked like or anything special as we just got the frame in the white for grip fitting... Memories of great craftsman and fine friends, John & George both.. Best to all, til...lat'r....GT:jumper:.

Stunning Lugers!!

I can't make out the stamp on that mag bottom; is it JM or GT??? :p

All JVM
 

H Rich! I hardly ever mark my stuff! And, I never put my mark visibly on any of his stuff! :eek:.... The mark on the bottom of the magazine was put on by me, but it is JVM in an ellipse..... I started marking them for him after he broke a few regular bottoms trying to hand stamp them unsupported! .... Wham! ..a broken bottom! Wham, a broken bottom! Wham... Gerry, would you please stamp them for me?.... :jumper:...best to all, til...lat'r...GT

I'm glad everyone likes them - I like them too - but what's a fair price???

There is one in an online auction now, starting bid $4k.

Gentlemen,

Priceless, but I'd start at $10,000.00.


Sieger

I feel their value is 4k minimum, but I would expect they would be worth $6500-$8500 (each)

depending on who was selling them.

They have always kept their value, but they are unkn0wn by many collectors and so they are harder to sell. I have always wanted one, although I would want one to shoot every now and then...

Beautiful pistols, designed to be shot with no problems. These were priced @$5,000+ when John was still making them. I agree, probably now worth closer to $10K each as dependable .45 shooters, compared to the M1907 test look-alikes, which have function problems. TH

Hi,

To me, it's unthinkable to ask that much for an M1907 recreation and then have the final product not function properly.

With an extra few days of testing and development, I'm sure he could have mastered the cartridge O.A.L. and spring balance issues. Perhaps he just isn't a Luger shooter.


Sieger

I agree completely, if I spend that much on a "range gun" however beautiful, I would expect from it at least a decent accuracy wthout any issues.


Sergio

Do you mean the Rock Island auction scheduled for September 11-13? That's not online - but anyway yes, I am watching it.

OK I have a related question - how much is shooting them going to take down their value? (How many remain unfired?) These two are about 99%. The safety on the 6" one has been moved so there is the wear mark from that, but the 4" one doesn't even have that mark. Frankly I had put these in the "never shoot" category but everyone keeps saying what great shooters they are . . .

Yes, I'm planning to get one for a shooter, right after I finish my caviar and champagne!

Who knows, after all they are not vintage collectible Lugers, I think that if you get one of them as a shooter you do it manly because you want something beautiful to show off at the range and wear marks are not that important at all.
To me a small scratch on a 1900 Luger would be like tearing my heart out, but on those modern productions perhaps a small scratch won't be the end of the world.


Sergio

Yeah but a Martz .45 is going to be rarer than a 1900 soon . . .

Once the Martz is fired(could be only one round) it goes into a larger group of fired specimens. Definitely two different categories, and two different price points. I would be so tempted, as I am a shooter, but I would resist if I owned an unfired Martz.

Here one of his real gems~http://www.bellandcorbettoutfitters....avy_Luger.html

One test shot or full magazine is like test driving a new car! You are not losing its virginity!! All new guns offered for sale are test fired for intregity and safety. They often include the paper target for accuracy. Eric

I'm thinking that the grips on this Martz Navy are not born of the Sarkisian/Tomec collaboration. These in the pics for this listing look like the typical cheap-o repro!

Martz navy
 

Hi David, You are 100% correct, the gun is definitely JVM made! The grips are definitely not!!! :eek:... I'm sure some one put the repro grips on for shooting, and then they, the original custom grips, became lost for what ever reason?.... And so it goes!...til...lat'r....GT,,,,:jumper:

Hi,

Those certainly are NOT Martz grips!!!!

Sieger

I found a couple of old, original photo prints, with John Martz' signature and a 1979 date in my archives.

Thought this was a good place to show one.

I agree. They are 'fantasy reproductions', mostly made from Luger parts, and 'prettied up'. Yes, a lot of time and effort, but not 100% copied from the original .45 Lugers, and IMO a novelty item, rather than a collectible. :thumbup:

I think Ed's estimate is accurate. I really can't understand some peoples' obsession with .45 caliber Lugers [coff 'Eugene Golubtsov' coff] to the exclusion of other more historical restorations, but to each his own, I guess... :rolleyes: