Questions On an Auction
 

I was looking around on GB and came across this...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=455104557

The red flags went off for me with a few things on the finish. Selfishly I hate to raise attention to a good opportunity but in this case I'm not in the bidding mood rather the learning mood.

For me the flags are the how light the Waffens are on the toggle and the lack of toggle marks on the rear. Also the matte finish on the slide, the presence of possible buffed out pits, and the pin and bar coloration (on toggle). Finally to some extent the plum coloration on the rear of the toggle. I have experience seeing plum on P38s but I can't say I've seen it with P08s... of course I'm very novice when it comes to P08s.

So what do you guys think? Am I right to have concern with originality???

Jeremy

Looks good to me. Some of these were in virtually new condition. And $0.01 starting, no reserve, that's a real auction. Bookmarked to see how much it will go.

Jeremy, the graphite looking pictures and the outside pictures almost look like different guns! The colors bother me. Could be lighting but I also don't like the finish, awful nice.

Holster I am unsure about...

Lets see what others say - Alvin likes it, and I don't...

The holster must be an collector add-on. This one has never been in service.

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BTW, not my gun, and I don't know the seller. But this is the only way making sense. Otherwise, it cannot be in this shape.

That is a pretty odd 2 tone finish on the upper. Looks like they bead blasted the barrel extension prior to (re)blue. Left grip panel does not fit well at all, either. Zero bluing loss on the side plate, muzzle, etc.
A nice gun, but...
dju

My vote is I do not like the color. I think this luger has been restored. Holster looks ,ok. Bill

Nothing wrong with it. But a few pictures were poorly taken, especially #81, and #89, might be caused by gun grease applied protecting the surface. There are late Astra 900, Mauser 1930, Schnellfeuer in unissued condition, being rare in condition dimension. I assume there are also a few byf Lugers in unissued condition. But as a military pistol, it's even rarer. Must be byf though, earlier German-made Lugers would be extremely unlikely. Large volume of byfs in excellent shape forms the base to support a few unusual ones, statistically that's possible.

It's a common practice for collectors to "rig" a nice pistol. My guess is the holster and tool were bound to the gun by collector, in this gun's collector stage, not in its tool stage.

Alvin:
It's your money, go for it...
dju

Not much budget left for this year. Had a bid on a RIA item. If not getting that one, I will give this one a try tomorrow if still within range. But Luger collectors are more generous than me on Lugers (like I am more generous on C96 than Luger collectors :), understandably), it could be hard to compete with others.

It's good for the money at this time if it's legit.

If it's the real deal I'm surprised the gun has not surfaced within the circles once before.

Jeremy

Looks refinished to me; maybe walnut shell or corncob blasted. Very light buffing, quite well done. The plum colors would be a confirmation of re-bluing to me, but again, well done. No holster wear on sideplate or handling wear on grip straps, again an indication of refinish. Grips look new (repros). Plum colors maybe from poor heating of bluing solution/poor circulation.

It's at $1425 right now, another day to go. I'd say the complete 'rig' would not lose you any money at this price. I like it, and again at this price, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. :)

A good "starter" Luger. :D

Hehe...Ask for more pictures... :p

Another thing: This is E/135 stamped. Serial matches the block for this. Relatively low number of these for a BYF 41 if I've done my research right.

Thanks for everyone's input... I'm really learning a lot.

Jeremy

Refinished, quick glimpse through tons of pics and I see bluing inside pitting, front sight is mismatch. In too god shape for the age but traces of pitting all over and no wear on high points but obvious thinning on markings. Just look at the pic #28, side plate tells a nice story.

Keep my exclusive right to be wrong.

SIGP2101

Is the front sight of this variation supposed to be numbered to the gun?

Regarding the pits under blue, that would need in-hand inspection. They have 3-day return policy, and risk is only on postage.

96 photographs, A Blessed Mother, blued toggle pin and a definite reblue evident on outside pics. Most of all the price. It look too pretty for it genuine correct price.. Ask the seller if it went threw any restorations. Ill pulled up some Teds' site for comparison! Here areTed Post some rework examples. You be the judge~~A little over kill maybe!! I may be wrong and I hope I am. But I agree with Ed and others. There is a color issue thats more evident outside under our Blessed Mother~~~Eric http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ There has to be a joke here somewhere~~ Is there a patron saint for lugers~ Maybe St George~

Actually, it's not very pretty. Comparing with Mauser 1930, byf Luger is a coarse gun. A taste though, I mean, those purple color, those minor erosion on the ear, etc. That holster can be sold to reduce cost, this gun does not need it.

Our Lady of Guadalupe...How could any seller lie with Her looking on?... :D

Postage both ways and FFL fees both in & out, unless buyer is FFL himself...And possibly state sales tax if buyer is in-state... :(

He might be a lawyer!! You can tell if they are lying if the move their lips! Eric, Esq.

Just Wondering, Would an alternative light source produce any reblueing or subsequent spot blueing? Or am I watching too many Forensic Files!

I have to agree with some of the members above, as this finish just looks too suspect to me. I go back and forth, but in the end feel it is a re-do.....although a very good one.

Jeremy, the hard part will come later if you decide to sell. Under the law you must disclose any issue with the gun. Everytime you pick it up some where in the back of the brain is the fact it is not a 100% right. There are plenty of right guns out there. I purchase all of mine from a dear friend, a member and luger guru. I pay a set amount each month until my purchase is complete. You will always know it is legit and can be returned. I would never trust anyone useing a religious icon to provide some credence or validity to a firearm! A bad luger is like an exwife, easy to get, very hard to get rid of no matter how good they look on the outside. I know I'm on my third! I'm content with Debbby and all my lugers. Whatever your decision you are always a friend. Stop by anytime or sent private mail to any member. Eric

Still watch its book value. Market is timing, book value is systemic.

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But, lots of credit has been given to pre-WWI guns in book. Maybe that's the reason many collectors now go to WWII? Or, WWII is closer to current generation? God knows. The BB value of this one is not high. But it currently sitting close to BB, and there is still one more day.

I sent him a private message on Gunbroker. He has close to 40 handgun and only one luger, your. Also close to 1500 approvals. There is a good possibility he has no idea!!! I'll let us know his responce!!PS I just noticed the toggle was blued is that right as none of mine are?

Jim got back to me> He indicated he really did not know! Thats why you have 3 days to return it! He said he too is a member. Heck take a chance if the bidding doesn't get crazy, Its nice no matter what! Eric

Eric:
You say that about lawyers???
Jack

Failed to get the pair of parabellums today. They went too high to reach.

I just noticed the toggle was blued is that right as none of mine are?
Eric:
Are you referring to the toggle pin? If so, on the later salt blued guns, such as this, yes the pin got blued too. On the older rust blued guns the toggle pin should still be "in the white".
Also regarding the plum coloring, I'm not exactly clear the years or the cause, but that was very common right around 1940 and 1941, so that alone would not scare me off on an otherwise honest gun.
dju

Jack my post stroke brain fart. Its the thumb safety lever!! Sorry! I had wondered about the pin as all my early ones a plain~~Do you know why the were left bare~All mine were 1908 and earlier~ Thank for the correction!

I don't like it. As already pointed out the fit of the grip, I see fire blue too. I've never seen fire blue on a byf. The ejector looks wrong. The color looks weird
Just my opinion
Mike Z.

Muzzle crown should be in the white and toggle pin should not be all blue.....some pitting under re-bluing evident......

Mike your right. Just to many issues for his first luger~ When the seller himself is not sure that should be flag!!

I believe that toggle pin should be fire blue. Also, the muzzle should be blue on this one.

Nowadays, collectors like photographing, posting a few hundred pictures on a single gun. See the following byf 42, which is in regularly excellent byf shape, then, it's more believable. Near mint byf is much rarer than regularly excellent ones.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=456844403

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=456844403

Now that's one well photographed P08! Very nice, very honest, and very expensive.
dju

I'm with you. I have no problem passing on a piece if I don't feel it's right. I'm not a gambling man. And the high quality pieces that I have acquired come from well known entities. Thanks for the hospitality.

Jeremy

Good for you! I praise you decision to ask before you buy. You have access to the actual experts in the field. Some have even published several books on every luger subject. This Forum of which I've been a member for over ten years has provided me first hand irreplacable knowlege on my favorite handgun. No one knows everything however we all posess first hand experiance in all types and years. Read everything on the subject from the wonderful books to subjects contained in some valuable posts! Your patience my have prevented a bad experiece for your first. You never will forget your first! Happy Lugering, From your new friends! Eric

$3001.

crazy

Gun vs gun, German vs German... My 1901 flatside C96 only sold $3500, much rarer than this, and BB value much higher than byf. Although it's not exactly apple vs apple, they are not totally irrelevant.

Obviously rare does not equal valuable.
It would be interesting to have a dialog with the buyer who spent $3k on that Luger.
dju