6" .30 Luger barrel, 1906 style
 

I decided to replace the 7.65 mm, mis-matched, really ugly 3 7/8" barrel on my lesser '06 AE with a 6".

What I desire is the early style/Swiss style barrel configured with "pencil" profile, non-ramped sight block, and notched sight blade.

Ed Tinker has graciously sold me a nice barrel he's acquired, and it's on the way. However, it is of standard P08 configuration--no pencil taper, ramped sight block with appropriate sight blade.

Ed's having a little sellers' remorse and I'd undo the deal if I could find another in decent shape to conform to my wild desires, possibly from an early DWM commercial? Not sure if a Swiss would interchange without the potential work necessary if it does not headspace or clock the front sight properly. But I'm uncertain if such a beast even exists. Was such a barrel ever made originally?

If not, or if it's unlikely I could ever find one, I'll go ahead with the P08 bbl. It will probably take a while for the barrel change project to arrive at its place on the runway, so in the meantime I'm reserving the barrel from Ed as backup in case of total bad luck in achieving 100% of my wishes.

No response yet to my WTB posting, so apparently I need some more creative means of shaking one of these barrels out of the trees.

David Parker

I am 'fine' I just got a 6 inch barrel.

great to see you got it

This one is the later, short frame. My better '60 AE has the long frame, but it's in pretty good shape, with the 4 7/8" already. I want a little something different for this gun, which is a definite shooter. Yeah, for a barrel originally installed on a long frame, I'd have to shorten the breech, re-chamber, and re-establish the extractor notch, right?
The combination of 6", pencil profile, and short frame might be hard to come by. I was wondering if they were ever made this way.

Oops, sorry, Ed. I'm glad you had good luck at the gun show and have another barrel. I'm not sure if it makes any difference, but, above, I said "sellers' remorse", which concept has been discussed on the forum. I've had it; others have admitted to it, as well. I'm about to have another dose of it soon, as I mail off one of the factory original cast front sights for an Erma Ep.22. which I sent for from Germany this summer.

David....i don't know if you keep an eye on Gunbroker, but not long ago they had a barrel just like you desire, 6in .30, pencil profile. I'm pretty sure Tom Heller still has 6in .30 barrels, but they are the thicker P08 profile

sorry, should have had a smilie face :rolleyes:

;)

Nope, he's out--first place I checked!

I check G.B. pretty much every day. Guess I missed that one. Double Dang!

Nope, nothing there, either Lots of short 7.65 barrels, a few arties; but no 6".. I did notice the pattern of re-listing, as things reappeared going down the list. One for $100 reappeared several times, "Luger barrel needs relined".

I assume that you have checked with the LugerDoc?
dju

David
Have you looked at the 6" barrel on ebay. It is item # 150963736074. It closes in 10 hours. Presently at $89. Bill

Yes, but someone wants it more than I do. Very blurry pics in this listing, impossible to see/assess the "freckling" the lister speaks of. It is the same configuration as my purchase from Ed, which I have decided not to fool with/modify to be "pencil" style. But one that is damaged on the outside, well, that'd be a more likely candidate for the lathe and mill, that's what I need if not possible to come up with one already old style shape.

I am considering this, as I said above. I didn't want to do it to the Ed barrel because it's original and in really nice shape; it would be just the thing for building a Navy in 7.65. But one with a good bore, but ugly/damaged on the outside could work pretty well for unearthing the pencil profile from within what is presented by a standard P08 configuration. I could do the lathe work, but I'd have to have someone with a mill take down the O,D. of the barrel band, since the sight block sits on it. Refinishing is something the whole gun needs, so doing the barrel along with it would help assure the finish matches everywhere on the pistol.

No problem having one made from scratch out of the Re. 700 .30s Rick says are available, but at this point, most of it would be beyond the reach of my abilities and facilities. If there is a volunteer who could fashion one in the white for me along these lines, and for, say, $200 or less, speak right up, and I'll find one of these old take-offs!

Well, here's the eBay one. Less than an hour to go. It's just over $200, what's it worth? I hate these non-pictures...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Germ...70959164675%26

Update: Auction ended, sold for $222.50. I didn't bid again.

What would be a fair price to pay for one like I want? Is my $150-200 range unrealistic? It might just as well have been, in this case.

1900 style .30 luger barrel--so far...
 

Here is a pic of what has been done to the standard configuration barrel so far. I found a local machinist who worked to my specs and a 4 3/4" barrel on the upper of my other '06AE--and VERY reasonably. He also milled me a set of tool steel bars from which to slice individual extractor blanks for the Erma KGP68a.

Ed or Hugh, I cannot for the life of me find the pic of this barrel as it was passed on to me. If either of you still has it, could you please post it here, for comparison? Thanks in advance.

David

That is indeed quite interesting...I have a hypothetical question, which may interest other members as well...

Would he be interested in 'profiling' a six inch 7.65 Luger barrel blank??? Specifically, one with the threads & chamber already cut, and the front sight base 'indexed'??? But the bulk of the barrel exterior left at approximately 1.25" diameter???

Purely hypothetical... :)

David,
I don't have a pic of it, sorry.
Hugh

Postie,

He might do it again. The work cost me $100 plus materials, and this included milling 2 bars of tool steel to Erma extractor profile, slicing a few blanks from one bar, and turning a couple of little plungers that help the retractor's spring interface with a small notch on the back of the extractor. I thought it was a great bargain and was pleased to have found him to do this kind of work. The profile actually has an area towards the breech that is not straight. He turned the front end of the barrel first and left a portion of straight turned cylinder shape towards the back in order to hold onto it better while milling the barrel band down. Re-establishing the continuation of the tapered cut is where it's off, but I'll be able to straighten it out on my own equipment. He said he'd do a project or two in the future, but basically has shifted his interests from guns to clocks, and would prefer to work on them instead. Go figure.

BTW, I obviously will need a barrel change next. Seth, the original guy, has referred me to another guy, with whom I've spoken on the phone. When I meet up with him, I'll take him my pile of parts in case he can handle the job. But if I get a feeling that his capabilities are inadequate, would you like to be involved?

No problem Hugh. Maybe I can find it on my computer if I look harder! Thanks for lookin', anyway...

I will look, did I talk about it or show it to you originally

I love the new look ! :)

When I talk to the guy about clocking, indexing, and proper barrel vise and system to hold the extension without damaging it, and finally headspacing check/adjustment, I should be able to gauge his abilities. I'm hoping, as is very possible, that the replacement will crank right on just fine, however, I'm also aware that clocking and headspacing have their own needs and remedies. If he says he has a .30 luger chamber reamer already, I'll begin to think we can do it here. He's also a machinist, and even though he might not have specific Luger experience, I think we'll be fine.

One more question: I've seen the dimensional range for proper headspacing discussed before, not too long ago. Could someone with the figures please post them? My search didn't turn up the post I wanted...

IA, Just be aware that the threaded portion of a M1900 barrel is about an 1/8" LONGER than that of a standard PO8, so that a standard barrel will not work without a lot of work. TH

Tom,

It's been a while since I started this thread... The frame for this AE is newer, short style. This was taken into consideration when I obtained this barrel from Ed, so the new barrel is also for the short style. The apparent 1900 style of the barrel is only manifest on the outside!

Dave -

I lost track of this thread...Have you mounted the barrel yet??? Any pics??? :)

How/where did your machinist get a small enough dovetail cutter??? (Or did you use the existing dovetail?)

Here ya go, Rich. I posted this pic a while ago but darned if I remember which thread it's in. This was taken before I fit the sight blade, but you get the idea...

The sight block's original dovetail was preserved. I gave my guy dimensions taken from a 4 5/8" pencil barrel on my other A.E. I had him reduce the diameters of the barrel, barrel band. Also removed the ramp at the rear of the sight block to yield the same squared style and dimensions of a 1900/06 sight block. Was it Michaelangelo who said his sculptures were inside the quarry blocks, all he had to do was chip away the excess? This project was like this, an early style barrel was within a standard configuration barrel--we just removed the excess! This is now my favorite shooter; I really like the way .30 Luger feels when shooting.

outstanding, I just love it - read some of my earlier postings and changed it - as I did not like how I came across. My apologies.

Excellent looking Luger!

Dave please remember that a "Navy" barrel has a higher front sight base to match the higher rear Navy sight.

Just any 6" barrel won't work to make a Navy style Luger with a real or repro Navy rear sight. The sights would be at the wrong angle and the gun would print WAY high on the target. If you are having a custom barrel produced, you will need a front sight base that is roughly 1/16" higher... and adjust from there during the build/test firing to get it right.

Dave, IMO, what would go great with that profile barrel is one of the Finnish 'square' front sight blades... :D

OK, on the left is the muzzle of my '06 A.E. long frame with 4 5/8" pencil barrel and proper style sight blade. On the right, we have the 6' pencil barrel in question. The sight blocks on these stick up higher from the barrel band because the early barrel bands aren't as big around as the later barrels. The distance from the center of the bore is, I contend, the same to the top of either sight block! The dovetail area of the modified barrel is undisturbed. Still needs a little cleanup...

Since earlier posts, I've decided not to worry about trying further to make it mimic a Navy-- turns out I'm happy enough with a 6" American Eagle.

I don't recall seeing that thread. It seems everyone who does re-barreling/re-chambering has a different idea of what the 'proper' headspace should be. :rolleyes:

Military headspace and commercial headspace are different. Military is much more lenient. Commercial is much tighter, and IMO more accurate.

I had an old six inch barrel blank that was left over from my initial attempts some 30 years ago. I have pretty much viewed it as a mistake, kept to remind me how not to do something. But seeing your six inch 30 cal 'pencil' barrel and looking at my 'mistake', I decided to see if I could salvage it.

It didn't come out as well as yours (I suck at finishes), and it wasn't until I read the two pages here that I realized yours is in 30 cal...Mine is 9mm... :(

Oh, well...It looks better now than it did 30 years ago... :D

I "cheated" with the finish on mine, Rich--That's what the machinist who helped me get up up to speed working with my little lathe almost 30 ago would have said about applying a file to establish a final surface. After that, 220/360 grit with a wooden paddle backer; and finally purple Scotch Brite.

O.D. depends on I.D., which is larger on the 9mm. I imagine that the wall thickness of the bbl is a bit greater, too, to handle the greater pressure of a 9mm. Yours looks good and I bet it will look even better on a pistol!

Now I'm wondering if there was ever such a thing as a 9mm barrel with pencil taper, square sight block. I seem to recall that the 9mm barrels on commercials were "military" profile?

Lifer, The first 9mmP barrels were the M1902 "Fat" barrels. I believe that these pistols had a heavier flat recoil spring, than the 7.65mm M1900s, so if installing a 9mm barrel using the 7.65mm recoil spring, I suggest a low power load in 9mms to be used. TH

Tom,

Would it not also be possible to swap out the flat leaf system and replace with the coil spring system? I know, the components are slightly different between rear toggle and spring, but changing everything over from the rear link on down would do it? I'd add the adjustable guide, too!

I'm not Tom (Tom doesn't take pics) but I see two problems: The small bulkhead that the coil spring bears against, and the lack of metal for the recoil lever pin...

...What adjustable guide???... :confused:

It is not only possible, it has been done. There are a number of authentic experimental and presentation Lugers that have had this modification (I even have done it :))

Ron, I'm comparing your 1900 frame to mine and I don't quite see where your 'insert' starts & ends...Is it welded in??? :confused:

Yours has a stock lug...Is that a late 1900 frame???

I see that it's more than simply changing parts...

It starts and ends inside the red circle, and it is silver soldered in. Perhaps you can see the dovetails of the insert in this photo

P.S. It isn't mine...I wish it was. It is a GL marked transitional piece with the improved breech block and made from a 1904 Navy frame which explains the stock lug.

I see something on the inside grip, but I can't envision what it is that is soldered in...Dave, can you see it??? :confused:

Is it something maybe one inch in diameter and shaped to fit the cavity???

Richard,
The entire web (or bulkhead as you call it) and the support for the recoil lever pin has been fabricated and set into the 1900 frame with dovetails at the front (see inset) and rear. Charlie Kenyon provided detailed line drawings of the insert in one of his articles in the series he wrote for "The Gun Report" some years back. It is the same device that was in a prototype piece that has been attributed to the Dutch, in fact some give the Dutch credit for inventing the coil spring action (but was probably something developed by DWM in response to the Dutch request for improvements).

I guess you have to be on top of it to see them...But that's OK, I have no plans for them. I don't have Kenyon's article. Maybe Dave would be interested... :)

Yes...It's the old salt in me showing through... :D

[QUOTE=sheepherder;253071Dave, can you see it??? :confused:

Is it something maybe one inch in diameter and shaped to fit the cavity???[/QUOTE]

The solder joint at the front of the insert is fairly visible, and if you look closely, a seam is evident in the material b elow the newly-created place for the pin. It would appear that the unit is slipped into the cavity in the frame, and the dovetails on the face of it assure that it won't be torqued around. The closer the fit of the joint, the better the solder bond; so I'd imagine a lot of work in fitting the piece to be patched in. The concept seems simple, otherwise. Thanks for the pics Ron.

I'd like to have a 1900 shooter someday. Changing over the recoil system would eliminate any worries about breaking a flat spring. This modification is semi-permanent (could be restored with a bunch more work) but the theoretical pistol would be a shooter.

Rich, I was referring to the adjustable recoil spring guide in another thread.