What do I have here?
 

Hello Gentlemen,

I was just given this Luger last night. My Grandfather brought this back with him from WWII. Other than that, I don't know anything about it and I want to learn as much as possible.

Any comments would be apreciated, but I definitely would like to know the following.

Why the double date stamp? Was this originally built in 1914 and then rebuilt in 1920?



Thanks,

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...6/IMG_0608.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...6/IMG_0607.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...IMG_0604-1.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...IMG_0611-1.jpg

Any help at all?

HI MIke,

Welcome to the forum.

You have a 1914 DWM, from WWI, that was restamped during the Weimar era. The 1920 is actually a Reichswehr property stamp, not a re-date. We'd love to see more pics. Especially the acceptance marks on the rt side of the receiver.
FN

Mike, welcome to the forum.

not much more I can say, 1914 would have been at the beginning of WW1...

You are more than welcome to ask any questions; but searching around is fun and the FAQ has a lot of info in it too; http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121


ed

Thanks Ed,

I have been searching, but maybe I am not using the right words.

Any idea why the double date stamp?

yes, i do.

the first (oldest) is the date, then in 1920, a lot of weapons were being stolen and resold (rampant unemployment, etc in germany); so the Reichswehr came out with a decree that all military owned weapons (pistols, stocks, all kinds of items) were stamped 1920. So technically it is a property stamp and not a date.

BTW, that approx answer is in the FAQ, the link I gave you ;)
ed

Thanks, I did not see your link (using a Blackberry)

Its fine, just doing the mod thing of reminding and pointing people to the right place...


Ed

Welcome to the forum! Hey - If you were trying to redact the last 2 digits of the serial # in pic 3, those two digits show up on the small parts in the first 2 photos. Nice gun. Congratulations!

Clark

Hi Mike, and welcome to the forum.

I can't see the detail because it's not in focus, but your magazine is not contemporary to the pistol. The aluminum bottom magazines were introduced later, in the early 1930s through 1942, with the Russians/East Germans continuing them after WW-II.

You've got a nice looking Luger that looks to be in its original finish. Keep it that way! If you haven't cleaned and lubricated it, do it now and do it carefully. If you remove the grips, be particularly careful not to chip the left one near the safety lever.

If all the numbers on parts match (4 digits or the last 2 digits) consider not firing it, since breaking a part will considerably reduce it's historic value and interest to collectors - not that you're going to give up your Grandfather's Luger... Check to see if any of his papers can be found - if he received the normal authorization from his unit officer, you'll want to get his "bring back papers" that list this gun's serial number.

In this community, most members don't worry about making serial numbers known - in fact, this often helps some of the studies being done by collectors here.

DWM was the company that Georg Luger worked for when he developed the Parabellum Pistol. They made a good quality product, and your pistol has been part of three eras in Germany. With your Grandfather, you are literally holding history in your hand!

Marc

Thank you,

The number 48 is stamped on all of the parts that I have been able to find, so I have to believe it has all matching pieces.

I am going to clean it when I get back home and examine the grips to see if I can get them tighten up using the "O" ring method.

I don't plan on shooting it...

I know for a fact that it was brought back with him from WWII, along with some grenades, a Nazi Helmet and a K98(since stolen)

Why would the import stamp make this more unlikely?

Also,

The markings below, any ideas?



http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...6/IMG_0623.jpg

Can you tell me more about the 4 markings on the right side of the receiver. I looked at all the markings in the stickys but could not find anything to match?

Looks like the left grip has already been chipped?

Your Luger has an export stamping ["Germany"] on it, meaning it was intended to be sold outside Germany...Not likely a 'bringback' [war souvenir] would have this stamp...

Sometimes a small flat fiber washer will serve to tighten up the grip panel too. Regardless, don't rely on over-tightning to secure the grip panel.
dju

I recommend the use of an appropriately sized neoprene O-ring on the screw to help remove the looseness of old original grips that have shrunken with aging. These are usually available in any hardware store or "home depot" type place. The neoprene gently crushes when the screw is tightened and helps immobilize the grip.

I do not recommend shooting Lugers with the original grips. Whether wood or bakelite, they are 60 to 100+ years old and usually brittle and may crack from the recoil impulse... get yourself some repro grips just for shooting and keep the originals safe...

This pistol is a good example on how finely finished the 1914s were. Very smooth metal prep.

I know for a fact that it was brought back with him from WWII, along with some grenades, a Nazi Helmet and a K98(since stolen)

Why would the import stamp make this more unlikely?

Also,

The markings below, any ideas? They don't seem to match the DWM proof markings exactly?



http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...6/IMG_0623.jpg

If you know that for a fact, then just ignore my remark. :) Ed Tinker here on the Forum collects stories about 'bring backs'; if you have one about the war booty your granddad brought back, he would be interested... :thumbup:

The acceptance stamps on the rt receiver are correct for that year and serial number sequence. X, Q, F. Or more correctly Crown X, etc. Written C/X, C/Q, C/F The last to the right is the correct DWM stamp. Should be one on the barrel, and other places too.

FN

I havr never seen a pistol with more markings on it.....sheesh!

Used the rubber "o" rings on the grips, worked perfectly. I also noticed that it firmed up the safety witch I thought was way too loose.

bigbuckeye -

I'm guessing you've never been in the military...or you would know that every soldier/sailor/airman/marine has a story... :thumbup:

As you grow older and retell the story, you streamline it...leave out unnecessary details, accentuate your involvement, skip over unimportant trivia...because it's just a story, not sworn historical narrative...

Here's an example: A soldier captures a crew of a disabled German tank in WW II...and takes the tank commanders' Luger as a souvenir...later on in the war, he trades the Luger for a bottle of Schnapps...or a case of K-Rats...whatever...later, when he gets home, he starts thinking of his singular accomplishment, capturing a tank crew...Not many could say that...And when visiting a pawn shop/hunting goods store/gun shop, he sees an old Luger for sale...maybe for $75...and he buys it, to reinforce his memories of his war accomplishment...And after telling his war story to his buddies, he produces the Luger...he doesn't have to tell that he bought it in a gun shop and it's not the original Luger...he doesn't have to say anything... :D

That's just a story I made up...

Now, on to your grandfathers Luger...the "Germany" is an *export* mark, stamped on pistols sold outside Germany. (An import mark would be something like "KFS ATLANTA GA" )...The exporter of this Luger was required to stamp the country of origin on it...It is not a military (or commercial) stamping (it is in English and all other stamps are in German). Imperial or Wehrmacht Lugers did not have this stamp when it was in military service.

My godfather was in the army in WW II and his company captured the FN plant in Belgium and he brought back a brand-new off-the-assembly-line K98 and a side-by-side double rifle/shotgun that he said he picked right off the final inspection station at the factory... :eek:

The rifles hung over his fireplace until he died...One of his sons-in-law took them; I lost track of them after that...

It's a good story...but for all I know, he won them in a card game...or maybe found them by the side of a road... :)

The old timers here have a saying..."Buy the gun, not the story!"... :thumbup:

If you read some of the threads here, and on GB or AA, you'll find some really fascinating stories...

I'm not trying to run your grandfather down...he sacrificed years of his life for his country and our way of life...Honor his service and his memories... :cheers:

Hi Mike, Rich is absolutely right, telling stories is what Grandfathers do - I should know, I'm one myself. When my Grandsons ask me how I got my Lugers, I tell them thrilling tales of my WWII exploits (even though I was only seven when the war ended)!
They always start the same way: "The General sent for me and said "Norm, we're in trouble, and you're the only man who can help""....
Best regards, Norm.

Norme,
That is so very true. In the Submarine Navy of old, we always started a good one with "This is no s**t". Like when I tell the kids about the time our submarine was attacked by the giant squid and I had to swim out of a topedo tube to cut it loose with my K-bar. That was after the quartermaster stunned it by shining a 5 cell flashlight throught the #1 periscope.

That is the difference between a Sea story and a fairy tale. Fairy tale always starts with "Wunce apona time".:thumbsup:

In this case, my Grandfather passed away years before I was born (68, and I was born in 76).

I am still being told he came home with it.. Would love to know how he aquired it..

Out of curiosity (It is never leaving my collection), could you give a value?