Erfurt c/RC mark survey
 

Updated 11/07/06
Most current version of the database
The Ph entries are from photographs, not all pistol views were shown and so there could be marks missing from these rerports.

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A very interesting and informative discussion about the WWI Revisions-Commission and c/RC markings on Erfurt Lugers () has reminded me of the brief attempt a year or so ago here on this Forum to survey the predominance of c/RC markings, by year, on Erfurt Lugers. The discussion has got my data juices flowing, so I am resurrecting the survey in hopes of doing a proper datbase.

There have been an number of good responses, and I have mined the Forums for data (there are a surprising number of good reports). The database is complex enough that it is easiest to snapshot the spreadsheet and present it here (current as of 6/15):

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...cdatabase2.jpg

You can see the kind of data I am looking for:

Year
Serial number
standard or LP (1914)

c/RC marks on:
Barrel-above inspector mark
Barrel-elsewhere

Reciever-above hardness mark
Receiver-sear bar
Receiver-elsewhere

Toggle train-breechblock
Toggle train-center toggle
Toggle train-rear toggle
Toggle train-elsewhere

Frame-trigger guard
Frame-left frame rail
Frame-elsewhere

Trigger plate-exterior
Trigger plate-trigger lever

Takedown lever

Anywhere else not specified

Since there were a number of DWM c/RC marks reported I am including them and looking for more.

Thanks very much to everyone who has responded so far. If anyone else has information to add, please post the information here or email me dwightg@pacifier.com . I will continue to update the database post every so often.

--Dwight

Dwight...soryy I missed this post. Here's the info on mine...

1916 Erfurt sn 2947n (standard)
c/RC right side receiver over inspection marks
c/RC front top of trigger guard

1918 Erfurt sn 5830d (standard)
c/RC right side receiver over inspection marks
c/RC over sn on rear flat side of rear toggle piece
c/RC front top of trigger guard
c/RC right side of breechblock (mark is exposed when gun assembled)


Looks like the 1918's were pieced together for production from whatever they could get their hands on as quickly as possible. Hope this helps.....Cheers....G

I have posted the current database in a revised first post to this discussion. My thanks to everyone who has provided data so far.

--Dwight

P.08 1914 Erfurt sn 963 b

C/RC Left side of barrel
C/RC Trigger guard


P.08 1917 Erfurt sn 4261g

Broken Crown

C/RC Rear toggle link
C/RC Left side of barrel
C/RC Trigger guard

Dwight,
Can you post a picture of the mark we are looking for. My 1917 Erfurt does not appear to have a c/RC (assuming that means a crown over the initials RC) on it, but I would like to know what the mark looks like.
thorin6

Dwight,

1911
#7686
standard of course
c/RC toggle train - center toggle
KFS

Ron, and Karl.

Thanks very much for the info.

William,

Here is a shot of the c/RC mark, its the best one I have and not very good at that, but it should get the point across.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/crc.jpg

--Dwight

Year 1917
SN 9358d
Standard
c/RC above proof marks on right front of receiver
Not observed anywhere else
thorin6

Dwight,

1912
#719a
Standard
C/RC Trigger Guard (tucked way up in the curve where the guard meets the frame in front...almost missed it)

I know it sounds a little cynical, but I suspect that the C/RC marks show up with increasing frequency as the war progressed largely due to bureaucracy. The inspectors needed to justify their existence and keep their jobs.

Karl, and Ron,

Thanks much for the info.

I'm not sure that that reason is cynical, but do we know if there was that kind of jeopardy?

--Dwight

There have been quite few posts and emails of c/RC details, and I have mined Imperial Lugers and Weimar Lugers for c/RC marks. This has more than doubled the data, so I have edited the top post to include the current spreadsheet. The photo notation indicates that all views were not always available for examination.

Continued thanks to everyone who has participated.

--Dwight

Dwight,
In your spreadsheet you note that my SN has 2 marks (1917 SN 9358d), but I only saw the one on the receiver--there isn't any mark on the trigger guard.
thorin6

William,

A transcription error, thanks very much for pointing it out (and for the info, as well). Fixed on my database, it will show up next time I update the post.

--Dwight

RC
 

Dwight here is some more information for your servey.
1918 Erfurt ser# 6520q all matching including the magazine.
RC stamp on the barrel above the insp. mark
receiver over the hard mark
frame on the front of the trigger guard
Three stamps in all.
Bernie

1916 Erfurt # 7646
Rear toggle RC
above inspc. RC
Replaced barrel S/42 proofed TP

Richard,

Thanks very much for the info.

--Dwight

Year - 1917
Serial number - 8110k
standard or LP (1914) - std

c/RC marks on:

Barrel-above inspector mark
Reciever-above hardness mark
Toggle train-breechblock
Frame-trigger guard

I've inserted the most current data from this survey into the first post, above. Sorry that the headers are hard to read, this is right at the limit of resolution for the maximum filesize.

Thanks again to everybody who has responded.

--Dwight

i just put a Erfurt Luger on layaway,a 1917 that has the C/RC marking on it as well

i have a couple Gew 88 Commission rifles that have the same proof,and a while back we had a discussion about it when i inquired about what its distinction was,and all that chimed in had it on a Erfurt Gew 88

is this a proof mark indicative to the Erfurt arsenal solely?

also what was determined the meaning of the mark (not 100% sure if correct) was that it signified a part that had a correctable flaw,that merely need some minor attention to bring up to standard,,,,,is this correct?

also what do you mean by "standard or LP"?

year -1917

serial#- 7661f

reciver right side above inspection proofs
forward part of trigger guard

i will examine more closely when i get it paid off and edit as needed

Hi Dwight, I didn't see my 1918 Erfurt ser# 6520q , that I posted earlier, on your updated list. Is it an over sight?
Bernie

Bernie,

Yep, just mised it. Thanks for the reiminder, its in now.

--Dwight

was my question a stupid one or something?

Dave,

Sorry for the late reply.

I don't know for a fact if the c/RC is exclusive to Erfurt. Erfurt was a government armory, and subject to Army regulations which specified, among other things, the Revisions-Commision. This strongly suggests that such a Commission existed in any Imperial government arms manufacturing facility. I imagine that other correspondents can speak authoritatively to this.

The c/RC mark did not indicate that a repair or modification was necessary; in fact, quite the opposite. If an inspector found that a part was out-of-spec in some minor detail, not affecting its function, he sent that part to the Revisions-Commission for their acceptance or rejection. The c/RC stamp indicates their acceptance of the part as manufactured, and officially absolves the inspector from responsibility in case the part fails later in use.

"Standard" indicates a conventional P-08 with a 4" (100mm) barrel. "LP" indicates an LP-08--Lange Pistole 08, the Artillery model.

--Dwight

thanks!!!! that answers everything,we were kinda grasping at straws trying to figure out what the mark meant,it didnt appear on all Erfurt Gew 88's as i only have the mark on 1 out of the 3 Erfurts i own,but at the same time out of 12 total Gew 88's i own from other arsenals it does NOT appear on any other arsenal,and i never seen it on any others that i have sold from upgrades over time,nor did anyone chime in on the discussion with the proof on any other arsenal other than a Erfurt,and this discussion took place in a Gew 88 forum

then i noticed it on the Luger i just put some down money on,and then i seen your post while lurking here,and i guess it refueled the oddity once again,because again it was associated with the Erfurt arsenal

when i get the ole girl paid off i can give it a more thorough inspection and give some more complete data for your study

thanks again very much for your response,Dave

I think the R/C was exclusive to government arsenals. I have a GEW98 made at the Danzig arsenal that has at least one "R/C" marking.