Potential Fraud-Ideal Stock and Grips on Ebay
 

These items have just hit ebay, from Germany:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Luger-Ideal-stoc...QQcmdZViewItem

Photo from the ebay location:

http://i12.ebayimg.com/01/i/06/65/f5/73_12.JPG

but I caution all that the seller is brand new with no feedback. There is currently no photo shown of the grips. This could be perfectly legitimate, but it could also be a scam for such a high dollar item as an Ideal Stock. The photos shown may be from another website.

Caveat Emptor... Buyer beware... make sure of who you are dealing with and that they actually possess the items for sale. You can do this by insisting on additional photos from angles you request... if the seller can't comply, then they probably don't have the item.

Good Luck all!

.........

Take a look at this one offered for sale by FGS here in the USA...it has the same wear patterns on parts of the leather...I suspect a big FRAUD being attemepted by this seller in DE...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/ideal.jpg

http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/photo6.html

I sent a caution message to each of the potential bidders, and used the ebay message system to report the item number as a potential fraudulent transaction. Let's watch and see what they do.

Nice work Pete!

Thanks John S.,

Those were my next steps...but it was too late last night...

I think the current high bidder is a Member on this Forum and on Jan's Gun Board...

I believe you are right Pete... I emailed nim via ebay... we will see what happens.

Hi John S.,

Any chance of moving this topic to the open portion of the Forum, so non-Patron statused members might see what goes on out in the World...?

Since we no longer want this in the private section of the Forum for the early-buy benefit of Patrons only, it could serve the general members more if posted.

Thats a good catch guys. In addition to the wear patterns, look at the lighting. The bright spots appear in the same places and in the same "pattern". Too many coincidences.

Moved to this discussion area from the Lugerforum Patron side of the house for all to see how easy it is to get taken in an internet Fraud...

Martin, you should ask, can't you get a picture of the grips? :D I am sure if he tried hard enough...


Although a lot of sellers don't have cameras and 'borrow" pictures. If at least they are honest and say so, then doubt doesn't creep in... {and these sure are the same pictures of the same item..}

He sent the EXACT same message to everyone who inquired (including ME) right down to the mysterious double-quotes around his words...

He probably forgot which website he stole the original photos from so he can't produce a shot of the grips. Since the auction is still there, eBay hasn't taken any action yet...

I only received a single 'thank you" note from one of the bidders for my warning ... and you are quite welcome Paolo... we try to watch out for each other on this forum.

Pete and John . Thank you

Did a search on his name; wirstmichvermissen

equals = will-me-miss

MAYBE -But some here are better shots than most ...
:evilgrin:
Fritz.

Hello to all
wirstmichvermissen, means approximatly: you will hate me.
I speek wery well german. Will contact this guys and ask he his location in germany, and say to him I will come and see the item before I bid. So I will see if he give me an adress??????
Best
Olivier

darn internet translator webpages :D

Great idea Oliver! Let us know what excuse he gives you...

Any problem John, if I become an answer, I will inform the people on this forum.
Best
Olivier

I take it as " you will regret knowing me" or having known me. I think the fellows quite the charlatan with a twist of humor. Probably needs to be knee-capped.

How does one become a Patron? I had seen the auction in question and had also gone to FGS to compare the photos as I had already seen FGS's offer.

Now had I not been aware and had the Parons not imformed me, I could have made a large, avoidable mistake.

Jack

Visit the DONATE link at the top of any discussion page...

Here is the Guns America ad from FGS that this crook took the photo from for their scam...

http://216.219.244.51/guns/976570719.htm

I see that Ebay has not yet pulled the auction. You would think that they would be more careful - expecially after getting sued over permitting the sale of knockoffs on Ebay.

I see also that there is a new high bidder in the auction.

Wasn't the price much higher? I would have sworn they had it ovger 1000 dollars. Now its only at 202.

The bidding history does not show any retracted bids.

I sent e-Bay a note as well as the current high bidder "oeash"...whom I met in person at the SOS show.

Hello to all
As I have say I have contact the seller and ask more pic. Here he's answer:
"Hallo,
alle verf�¼gbaren Photos sind in der Auktion aufgef�¼hrt

Marie"
Translation: all the pic I have are in the auction Marie
We can see he have change his name since lu1900 (Patrice) has write him, before it was "Martin" and yet "Marie"... curious?!?!

Then I have say him: I travel in all Germany and if I he can give me his adress or give me a meeting point.

Since no answer.

I my opinion: fraud.

Best regards

Olivier

I wonder if ebay's lack of action is due to the the "unofficial" nature of the notice? It may be that they will only take action if FGS notifys them...

--Dwight

AH-H-H!! The beauty of this forum brilliantly shines again.
Big Norm :cheers:

I also contacted oeash via ebay... and warned him.

If you go to the closed auction you will see that "wirstmichvermissen" the seller is No longer a registered user.
Mike

Nice detective work Mike...

We can chalk up another world-wide fraud prevented due to the membership here... We are the eyes and ears of the legal Luger collecting community.

Patron
 

I sent a donation to John Dunkle of the Forum on Dec 14, 2005. Is there a certain amount one must donate to become a Patron?

Jack Hiles
Mesa AZ

Jack, please contact John D. directly by private message. Let him know how you sent the donation. If it was by mail, it may not have been received. If by paypal, you will have a transaction number you can reference. ...and the answer is no, there is no certain amount... just what your heart tells you is right. It may be that John D. somehow overlooked the donation... I am sure it is just an oversight... Thanks for your support.