Police safety sear?
 

What is a police safety sear and how can I identify it?

What is it's significance in making a purchase?

Thanks in advance...

A police sear safety was a requirement in 1933 (also a magazine safety), the mag was discontinued and taken off of most guns, while the sear remained.

Here is a picture of one;

Thanks Ed. It would appear that none of mine, a 1939 42 code, a 1920 commercial and the 1918 Erfurt, have this extra bit. Should they?

only if it was a police model.

Certain lugers were sold / bought by the police. If it has one, then it is proof that at least in 1933 and higher, that it was with the police. I am sure there are other guns that were issued to police and there were no police unit marks or sear safety, but since it was a requirement, the chances are that most police issued guns had a sear safety put onto it.

Ed

Ohhhh okay. Now it's making sense.

I'm often asked if "it" has the police safety sear, etc. I was wondering why that is and why it could be present on any of my guns, nevermind a specific one...

Thanks again Ed. You're a prince... ;)

Steve asked about the significance.

How does the presence of the sear safety affect the value of a Luger?




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...r/lugerwht.gif

Hey Ken, welcome to the Luger Forums.... :-)

And the Luger club..... ;)

The presence of a sear safety itself doesn't affect a Luger's value. It is a determining characteristic of the Police variation, which has its own range of value depending on condition and other Police characteristics.

--Dwight

Dwight, are - generally speaking - the police variations more valuable? Or are they no more or less rare than anything else?

Steve,

As with any other variation, they have their own range of interest and characteristics. A mismatched Police gun with a poor finish and no unit marks will certainly have no more value than any other Luger for shooting. A Police Luger all-matching, in superb condition with one or two matching magazines (much more commonly found than with military Lugers) will be valued as much as any Military Luger in similar condition, perhaps a bit higher with the magazines.

Police unit marks may add a bit of value, quite a bit if they are uncommon or rare--EWB, for instance, or RG. Since many (perhaps most?) Police Lugers are found with unit marks, it might be just as accurate to say that those without may have a bit less value.

The downside is, there are many fewer collectors who specialize in Police Lugers than other variations, so there is a much smaller pool of individuals who are interested in paying premium prices for these guns.

And there does seem to be a relative ceiling for Police Lugers' values. Judging by prices, they are not (and in my view never will be) as much as Artillery Lugers, or Navy Lugers, or fine examples of 1900 or 1906 Commercial and American Eagle Lugers, or some of the more exotic military contract or other unique variations.

--Dwight

Great, thanks Dwight... That pretty well sums it up for me.... :)

:cheers:

Hi Ed T.,

What is the scoope on the odd "2983" numbering on the photo you posted...???

ahhhhh, that one Pete... Unsure, but this one also has a "rack" number on the rear. Although only the dutch guns truely have a 3rd or 4th number to differentiate it, my feeling is that another gun in the unit had a serial number almost matching, thus the four digits on the side-plate.
Pete, when will you be in the denver area next? I owe you at least a steak dinner?



Steve, I specifically collect weimar police, and in my opinion, a nice 95-97% weimar police (imperial reissue or new manufacture) with one matching mag will still be several hundred dollars less than a one matching mag WW1 gun. Even if both were, say 1916 DWM's... (one a police reissue, the other untouched, although the chances of it having been issued to the army at that time is pretty good.)

ed

To the point, Steve and I are probably thinking of a certain Luger for sale.

It has the sear safety, is an S/42 made in 1939 and is all matching, the condition, excellent or at least very good.

The gentleman is asking between $4500 to $5000 depending on which day of the week you ask him for the price.

Being the inexperienced Luger collector that I am, I am wondering whether this price is realistic, or is his head in the clouds.


All feedback is appreciated. :)




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...r/lugerwht.gif

unless three matching mag complete Rig, I think it is several thousand dollars too high...

A banner can get expensive, but an S-42??? Even Simpson's isn't that high for a two matching (non-police)...

ed

wworker:

A 1939 "S/42" is not too common and with a sear safety (Police procurement est. at 600) it is scarce. TRL page 40.

Regards Ken D

ken d, I've read the same book, but I also found 2 of these S/42 Police issue with sear safeties on the net at approximately $1.3K.


With the other seller asking $4.5K to $5K, there seems to be a paradox here.




:confused:

I think it is simply a mistake to buy expensive unless you really know what you are looking at (no offense meant). As an example, If I am offered a Navy or a Krieghoff, I simply would not know it enough to pay $4k - 8K and those are going prices for them.

If the price seems high, it is either 2 mag matching and very nice 98%+ or simply too high. The better the condition, the higher the price, that is why crummy guns are restored and sold as high blued originals by shysters.

Ed

wworker....for 4.5/5k per gun.....my gun vault is open to you :)

Also, note that "boosting" Lugers by adding sear safeties has been occurring to fake rare, Nazi-era Police pistols. Make sure that the serial number is in the proper range, that the rivet attaching the sear safety is white steel (not brass or blued), and that the cutout at the top of the sideplate is rough-edged and not blued.

--Dwight

Gee whiz guys, Simpson's have a 99% 1939 S/42 Police with holster and two matching mags for $4400, and his prices are not the cheapest around. Asking $4.5-$5K for just the gun in "very good to excellent" condition is just plain nuts. Don't let Luger lust con you into a bad deal.

wworker:

I agree the 4.5/5K seems out of line. Local gun show, National gun day, prices range from 1.7/2K.

Regards Ken D

Don't worry guys, I'm not going to buy for several reasons.

1. The price is out of my league
2. The price is too high for it to start with
3. The seller doesn't realize the price is too high
4. You guys advise against it and this means more to me than the first 3 reasons :)




Steve, didn't mean to hyjack your thread, but I think we were thinking about the same thing. ;)

See Ken, I told you these were great guys who know their guns... :) And yeah, you're right. We were thinking about the same thing...

Thanks for the info guys. I don't see me paying mulitiple thousand dollars for a gun anytime soon, but it's good to know the difference between actual vlaues and BS values, should a similar gun at a much lower price comes along...

For example, I figured that was too high for a 1939 S/42. But now when I see another S/42 at a more realistic price it seems so much lower by comparison... It makes me think that the $1,800 S/42 is a steal...

I think my next one will have a grip safety, no matter what kind it is... :) I don't know enough to be very specific in my collecting so I'll try for a few representative examples of various Looooogers.....

Hello there, need help with another police gun
 

I`m kind`a in the same boat as Ken/Steve, I`m a noob to Lugers and I`ve recently acquired what I assume to be a police gun but need help with the I.D. It`s a mauser commercial banner, 1939 date, s/n 4164w, crown/u on the front site, reciever and the extractor housing. It also has an eagleL on the right side of the reciever where you would normally find the military acceptance stamps. Here`s the kicker; it had the sear safety at one time but it has since been removed. Following this thread I closely examined what`s left of the rivet and sideplate, from the absence of bluing on the sideplate where the sear safety was and the fact that the rivet shank attracts a magnet I cannot help but to conclude this hasn`t been "humped up". Without pics I know it`s hard for someone to estimate worth, it came to me with a 1940 dated holster (KernKlager, Berlin) has normal holster wear and one mag (fxo eagle37) which of course does not match. My question is this;
Would it be worth attempting to replace the sear safety? If so who would I talk to? How much?
What`s the approximate worth as is? I`ve tried to compare different police Lugars for sale but they are either Weimar or reworks. I can`t seem to find a mauser banner/police gun to compare it with.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide,
Brian:p

Brian, there is a good chance it never had a sear safety installed. If I remember correctly (Bill will know), some of the banner's never had the sear installed.

A banner can be found on Simpson's LTD fairly often. A banner goes for more than many lugers.

Start your own thread and then add description and pictures when you have them

Ed

Ed, thanks for your reply and I`ll certainly start a new thread per your suggestion. I disagree with you however about the sear safety, once I upload the pics I think you`ll see what I`m talking about.

Brian et al, I just had a few repros of the sear safety made for such pistols that are missing them. $50 each with repro rivet. Send MO or check to address on the left. Tom