Another Movie Luger Redux...

Dwight Gruber · 07-02-2003, 12:39 AM

Its the same movie and the same Luger, but I'm starting a new thread because the screen in the other one was getting pretty deep...

Here's a cover shot of grim-faced comic Henry Gibson wielding his Luger out a car window. You can see that the barrel profile is wrong, that it is too thick and straight sided.

A closeup reveals that the barrel band and sight are wrong as well.

The odd protrusion at the front of the gun. Part of it is clearly attached to the barrel The other part seems to be attached to the frame. The proof marks would suggest that this is, for the most part, a real Luger.

A different frame, which also helps point out the barrel profile. Compare the inset: the barrel appears to be fxed in place, and the receiver slides over it as the action is worked. It looks like the frame protrusion may simply be what attaches the barrel to the gun. One can only imagine how the gun might work in this configuration.

In the front oblique view, the extension can just be made out at the fron of the frame.

--Dwight

Lugerdoc · 07-02-2003, 08:05 AM

Dwight, Much clearer photos this time. I now agree that the barrel is fixed to the frame and the receiver slides over it. This is a weird system, even for movie blanks. TH

Ron Wood · 07-02-2003, 08:26 AM

Some adaptations of auto and semi-auto weapons for movie use have incorporated a flammable gas for explosion, flame and noise effects. Perhaps this is a gas piston arrangement? BTW, thanks for the clear pictues Dwight. Very illuminating, even though still puzzling.

Johnny C. Kitchens · 07-02-2003, 10:40 PM

YES, thanks for the clearer image!!! I used freeze frame on a laserdisc and snapped a shot with a digital camera. Definitely not the best way to do it. With this type of capture, take a look at the very last thing you see in the close up of the luger. It maybe a reflection or something, but it appears that the toggle breaks!!!

Dwight Gruber · 07-02-2003, 11:35 PM

Johnny,

Here are the last two fames from the scene. In the left-hand frame--the penultimate frame--the toggle is fully intact. In the final frame, the image is blurred as the actor rotates his hand faster than the camera shutter can stop the action, but I see nothing that I would interpret as damage (remember, there is only 1/24th sec. difference between the frames).

--Dwight

John Sabato · 07-03-2003, 11:24 AM

Excellent investigative work Dwight!

This is obviously a hollywood modification for firing specific blank cartridges, or the gas piston device mentioned above... Perhaps the scene was shot in a location where the use of a genuine pistol was not permitted... Like NYC. A special blank firing device that only LOOKS like a Luger might be useable without special permits.

The use of the sleeved barrel is particularly interesting! Maybe if you look at the credit trailer on the film and discover who the prop/movie armorer was, you could follow up with a letter inquiring about the origin, and disposition of this gun...

This has been a really interesting discussion... and GREAT photographic work Dwight!

07-02-2003, 12:39 AM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Another Movie Luger Redux... Its the same movie and the same Luger, but I'm starting a new thread because the screen in the other one was getting pretty deep... Here's a cover shot of grim-faced comic Henry Gibson wielding his Luger out a car window. You can see that the barrel profile is wrong, that it is too thick and straight sided. A closeup reveals that the barrel band and sight are wrong as well. The odd protrusion at the front of the gun. Part of it is clearly attached to the barrel The other part seems to be attached to the frame. The proof marks would suggest that this is, for the most part, a real Luger. A different frame, which also helps point out the barrel profile. Compare the inset: the barrel appears to be fxed in place, and the receiver slides over it as the action is worked. It looks like the frame protrusion may simply be what attaches the barrel to the gun. One can only imagine how the gun might work in this configuration. In the front oblique view, the extension can just be made out at the fron of the frame. --Dwight

07-02-2003, 08:05 AM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Dwight, Much clearer photos this time. I now agree that the barrel is fixed to the frame and the receiver slides over it. This is a weird system, even for movie blanks. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-02-2003, 08:26 AM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Some adaptations of auto and semi-auto weapons for movie use have incorporated a flammable gas for explosion, flame and noise effects. Perhaps this is a gas piston arrangement? BTW, thanks for the clear pictues Dwight. Very illuminating, even though still puzzling. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-02-2003, 10:40 PM	#4
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	YES, thanks for the clearer image!!! I used freeze frame on a laserdisc and snapped a shot with a digital camera. Definitely not the best way to do it. With this type of capture, take a look at the very last thing you see in the close up of the luger. It maybe a reflection or something, but it appears that the toggle breaks!!! __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

07-03-2003, 11:24 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Excellent investigative work Dwight! This is obviously a hollywood modification for firing specific blank cartridges, or the gas piston device mentioned above... Perhaps the scene was shot in a location where the use of a genuine pistol was not permitted... Like NYC. A special blank firing device that only LOOKS like a Luger might be useable without special permits. The use of the sleeved barrel is particularly interesting! Maybe if you look at the credit trailer on the film and discover who the prop/movie armorer was, you could follow up with a letter inquiring about the origin, and disposition of this gun... This has been a really interesting discussion... and GREAT photographic work Dwight! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-02-2003, 11:35 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Johnny, Here are the last two fames from the scene. In the left-hand frame--the penultimate frame--the toggle is fully intact. In the final frame, the image is blurred as the actor rotates his hand faster than the camera shutter can stop the action, but I see nothing that I would interpret as damage (remember, there is only 1/24th sec. difference between the frames). --Dwight