Severe Pitting on byf 42

[HerbZ]

The one Luger presently in my possession is marked; byf, 42, and i suffix. After field stripping and removing the grips, it appears to have matching serial numbers inside and out, except for the grips which have no markings on their inside. The only magazine is marked fxo.

The pistol had been kept, by the WW II veteran who brought it back, wrapped in an old t-shirt, not a trace of oil on the outside, but with quite a bit of dark brownish black grease on the inside. I have sprayed, soaked, and scrubbed it with a toothbrush using Birchwood/Casey gun solvent/degreaser. The bore has very clear lands and grooves, with some bluing still in the grooves. There are some traces of rust on the inside despite (or because?) of the grease that had been there. The outside of the weapon has some pitting present on just about every surface, especially on its left side (perhaps the side upon which it had laid for years) and has severe pitting on the left side and top of the barrel.

Without family permission or budget to allow anyone else to work on the pistol's restoration, I have to do what I can on my own. However, even after reading many past postings on this forum, I am uncertain as to what to do next. I do have permission to shoot the pistol, but now I'm uncertain if that is advisable.

[Hugh]

WD40 and 0000 steel wool will clean up the rusting somewhat without harming the bluing.

[Dwight Gruber]

Herb,

That is not really "severe pitting", more like advanced freckling, but Hugh is right that it should be addressed to avoid getting worse. If it is all over the gun I'm sure it is annoying, and it certainly affects this gun's value to a collector.

That being the case, be sure to take it to the range and shoot it. As you will see by the number of posts by those of us who shoot Lugers, they are accurate as heck and a great deal of fun.

--Dwight

[HerbZ]

Dwight,

I'm not use to having to deal with pitting or freckling on firearms in years. I always thought that if it was deep enough to stick a pin point into it, it's a pit. Many of these on this Luger are that deep. Perhaps in this digital photo they don't appear to be as deep into the surface as they are because I used a flash. But be they pits or freckles, the pistol has been rusting away for decades, and I have to do something.

If it was a weapon of less renown, value, and not a family heirloom, I might not hesitate to go at it with Flitz polish or 0000 steel wool with WD-40. I was hoping there might be some other, more conservative, path to take towards restoration.

Once restored, I would very much like to shoot this pistol if it would be safe (Wal-Mart Winchester white box 115 gr. fmj). Though quite honestly, the last time I regularly shot firearms that were in a similar condition, I was much younger, single, and military surplus weapons and ammunition were cheap and in great abundance.

Thanks for your reply and enthusiasm for shooting!
HerbZ

[Ron Wood]

It is pitting by your definition, but it is not severe by any measure. In fact it is almost in collectable condition as it is (lots of folks would love to have one in that good of condition). The use of 0000 steel wool and gun oil will not harm the finish (unless you bear down really hard and scrub in the same spot until the blue is gone). There is no means of "restoring" this gun short of professional refinishing. However, it is is quite acceptable as it is and only needs to have the active rust in the "pits" arrested and the metal protected from further oxidation. You can't turn back the clock, what is done is done. You do "have to do something", but nothing more aggessive than what has been suggested. Good luck and enjoy shooting it.

[HerbZ]

Ron,

OK, I guess I may be guilty of some hyperbole in my very first posting in this forum. I may also be guilty of wishful thinking too. I was hoping there was some little known special technique for removing rust, and especially for cleaning it out of pitting, without endangering the original finish. Obviously this is going to be a project that requires time, patience, and finesse.

As for restoration work short of professional refinishing, I was thinking about cleaning up the wooden grips and perhaps putting some kind of white pigment into the letters of GESICHERT. That was all I was ever considering. However, after doing several searches on these topics in the excellent knowledge base here, I have more questions, and doubts too.

Thanks for your authoritative opinion!
HerbZ

[Ron Smith]

Herb,
It is a bit upsetting to find a nice old Luger so neglected, but it could be much worse. I just had a unit marked 1914 DWM completely restored that was in "much" worse condition. Very severly pitted.

It wasn't cheap to have it done, but I couldn't stand leaving it in that condition. My way of preserving a piece of history.

Yours, as Ron says, is acceptable and not all that bad, all things considered.

[HerbZ]

Thank you all for your comments. I've a better understanding now of what I have here for a Luger and what has to be done to it. I see it in a whole new perspective and am posting a photo of the entire pistol. Having posted its worst, here's its best side. (It shows up much darker in this photo than it is. I think it was a mistake to photographic on a white background; too much like backlighting.)

[Dwight Gruber]

Photoshop is a marvellous thing.

And that is a rather nice Luger. Actually, I'm sure we'd all like to see the whole other side, as well.

--Dwight

[HerbZ]

A marvelous thing indeed! No wonder people are often asking if a photograph has been Photoshopped. You've made it look much more like it really is. The mill marks and everything seem clearer too. Here's the left side, with the action open.

And while this is off topic, perhaps I may be permitted to bring this up here. Is it in any way harmful to leave a Luger with its action open for a lengthy period of time? For instance, while we have an empty nest, this Luger may eventually spend time with a family member with children, and they would be keeping the pistol with the action open and one of those DAC cable locks through the barrel and breach.

[HerbZ]

And here's one more that shows even more of it. About the only thing else I might mention is that the left grip is a bit loose. I've read someplace in my searches here about using an "O" ring or something like that with the grip's screw. But I'm not sure if that would help, as it appears to wiggle the most at the top. After close examination, I see that the left grip also has a little movement too.

[John Sabato]

You could lock the action open and leave it that way and I doubt that it will "set" the mainspring in your lifetime... or your heirs... A mainspring doesn't cost all that much either...

[HerbZ]

John has started me on another digression here, parts and where best to get them.

Does anyone have any opinions on this place?

http://www.northridgeinc.com/I_luger_pistol.htm

Any other or better suggestions for a good place to purchase parts for a Luger?

And one more, I can't help myself; I'm under the impression that one has to be very careful about purchasing magazines. What's the best and who has them?

[Dwight Gruber]

Herb,

Do a search in the Shooting and Reloading Forum for magazines. The subject has been discussed many times and I'm sure you will find all your answers there.

--Dwight

The "O" rings work well for the grips, or you might try to glue a small rubber shim to either the top or bottom of the grip that is loose, this works for me and the shim can always be removed with no damage to the grip panel.

Bob

[Hugh]

Herbz,

Four places to get Luger parts:
hellerarms@webtv.net
www.gunpartscorp.com
www.sarcoinc.com
www.marstar.ca

[HerbZ]

Tac san,

Here's a photograph of the muzzle, clearly showing what I believe to be bluing in the grooves (and traces of the copper brush I just used on it). I don't know if this was usual for a Luger or not, as it is the first Luger I've handled in over a third of a century.

I didn't think of putting pigment back into the letters of GESICHERT on a Luger as the "equivalent of whitening the lettering on tires," but more like putting the pigment back into the letters of LUFFWAFFEN on a Leica IIIc camera from the same era. I realize that there would be disagreement amongst authorities concerning this degree of restoration on both items.

The bronze wool that I know of is sold in only two grades, coarse or fine, but I'll look into it. Also thanks for the tip on Birchwood Casey lead-away cleaner.

As I'm typing away here, my older brother just called me on the phone and communicated, on behalf of the family, a cease and desist order against using anything more abrasive on the Luger than "a gun & reel silicone cloth." I still have permission the shoot the pistol (and clean it afterwards, of course), but that's about it, until I'm asked to return it.

HerbZ

P.S. Well, regardless, I've got the bug and I'm gonna have to obtain my own Luger. I guess now I'm in the market too. However, on my budget it'll have to be for one selling for well under $1K.

[HerbZ]

Hugh,

Thanks for the links, but it may be awhile until I have much use for them. I'm to leave this Luger pretty much as it is.

HerbZ

[HerbZ]

I'm thankful for having had the opportunity to have this Luger in my possession for a while, and because of it I've found and joined this fine forum, but I've sort of soured on this Luger project. I may yet put a white box from Wally through it (they're still selling ammo in Ohio), but I can not abide with something rusting away and not be allowed to do what's right by it. Before the summer's over it'll be several counties away and I hope I'll have a Luger that's just as good, if not better, by then.

[Parabellus]

HerbZ,

Nice Luger. Enjoy it.
Good to have you in the Forum.


Tac,

Thank you for the look inside.
Also, thank you for your service to Queen and country.

Russell