LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > Luger Discussion Forums > All Post-WWII Lugers

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 04-23-2005, 11:33 AM   #1
mauro
FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT
 
mauro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,535
Thanks: 106
Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts
Thumbs up Mauser Parabellum early production and User Manual

Hello friends,
I was looking at one of mine early production Mauser Parabellum user manual (available up to the 1975) and my attention was kept by a particular that I have not noticed so far.
The 29/70 depicted on the cover page and analyzed inside the booklet is not a â??normalâ? production. In fact it is a prototype.
I would like to point out some interesting reflections concerning the first Mauser Parabellum production (I do not analyze here the engineering pistol used internally by Mauser and in general either not numbered or numbered with special pattern numbering).

We already discuss in at least another topic that the first 50 Mauser Parabellum produced in .30luger (prototypes numbered 10.00.1001 â?? 10.00.1050) have some particular features, different with respect to the â??normalâ? production (1051 â?¦)
I have just purchased one of them; the number 19 (thank you Noel ).
I am very proud to have the 19th Mauser Parabellum produced and I really would like to find some other collectors with early production examples.
More in details the most important differences are:[list=a][*]- The frame of these early productions is NOT rounded on the front. This machining operation was not performed in the first 50 prototype.[*]- The serial number follows the preproduction pattern, for example in mine prototype is 10.00.1019 instead of 10.001xxx.[*]- The number on prototype uses larger characters than the normal production.[*]- The caliber on the chamber is being filled in with white while the normal production is plain.[*]- The normal production has the complete serial number on the left side of the receiver about even with the front toggle link. The 50 prototypes have no serial number in this location. Both have the complete serial number on the left side of the frame above the trigger.[*]- The shoulder on the receiver is not milled off on the prototype production. Milling the shoulders off is said to start with 51 and marks the first production change.[/list=a]

The early manual could be found in English or German. They have 22 pages.
Starting from 1973, with the production of the 06/73 models another User Manual was produced. In the cover page is now depicted a 06/73 model. This booklet was used up to the end of the production. It is written in German, English and French as well. It has 39 pages.
Let me know if you have some additional information about the Mauser Parabellum early production and the manual as well.
Ciao
Mauro

Hereafter my prototype number 19:







The complete set of User manual. The first two, in German and English, depict the first production (prototype) the last one was sold with the last production and it is written in German, English and French.



__________________
Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com
Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.
mauro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-23-2005, 03:50 PM   #2
Vlim
Moderator
Lifetime
LugerForum Patron
 
Vlim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,053
Thanks: 1,036
Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts
Default

Hi Mauro,

Very interesting. Also notice the machining is pretty visible on the 'ears' of the frame. On normal production versions, that area has been roughed to produce a sort of 'grainy' surface.
Vlim is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-23-2005, 04:06 PM   #3
mauro
FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT
 
mauro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,535
Thanks: 106
Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts
Default

Gerben,
You are right. Thank you for the additional info.
Ciao
Mauro
__________________
Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com
Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.
mauro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-24-2005, 03:12 AM   #4
Steve Richards
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Posts: 487
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Mine is serial number 10.001336. On the right side of the frame it is stamped 10.001336 and on the right side of the slide below the middle toggle piece, it is stamped 10.00.1336. I did not get an instruction booklet.
Steve Richards is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-24-2005, 11:12 AM   #5
Lugerdoc
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Lugerdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302
Posts: 5,089
Thanks: 6
Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts
Default

Mauro, Here's some more info for your data base that contradicts some of your assumptions: My earliest 06/70 (original test target dated 18Dez.1970) S/N 10.00.1067 (marked as your on right frame & receiver) 7.65x150mm barrel, also has the unmilled receiver. AE marked and Safe & Loaded. It has the in house "FBM" proofing on the left frame rail forward of the sideplate and Mauser Parabellum over .30 luger, aft of it. I came with a blue & white manual showing an unmilled receiver with a 7.65x150mm barrel and ONLY in English. My latest 06/70 Swiss gripped Parabellum is #ll.012607 also numbered all on the right side as the earlier one. 9x100mm barrel "FBM" proofed as is the left frame rail. AE, Geladen & Gesichert marked. Tom
__________________
Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302
Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net
Lugerdoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-24-2005, 11:55 AM   #6
Vlim
Moderator
Lifetime
LugerForum Patron
 
Vlim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,053
Thanks: 1,036
Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts
Default

Hi,

Well, the numbering on postwar Mausers certainly is interesting, as both the 29/70 as the 06/73 ran alongside for a while, causing much confusion in the numbering department. Even Mauser doesn't know where certain transitions were made.


My 1972-ish 06/73 has serial number 10.004187, stamped both on the receiver and the frame area. It has the new style frame and receiverand the old style safety and takedown lever. It also has the old style trigger. Therefore I tend to call it the '06/72-and-a-half'.

The 72-and-a-half came with the 1973-style booklet.

Mauro: Do you have any information in Mauser's involvement in the reworks of vintage P08s? I've come to understand that the so-called Frankonia reworks may have been restored by Mauser. Haven't found any substantial proof of this, besides the picture of a vintage reworked P08 in a Mauser catalog. My Frankonia rework came boxed with a Mauser manual...

Vlim is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-24-2005, 12:20 PM   #7
mauro
FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT
 
mauro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,535
Thanks: 106
Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts
Default

Hello Tom and Gerben,
Thank you so much for the interesting information.
I have prepared here some pictures to better explain the differences between the early production and the â??normalâ? production.
I am sure that the first 50 pistols sold to Interarms have the configuration of mine 19. These pistols were mainly used for presentation purposes. I have two articles date 1971 were these pistols have been presented. In these articles the differences between these 50 pistols and the usual production is underlined.
The question now is: when Mauser started the production with the definitive configuration. It seems, according to Tom, that the number 67 had not reached the final configuration.
Do you have any idea about this interesting matter?
Ciao
Mauro

Prototype number 19


Prototype number 19 (top) vs normal production (bottom)
__________________
Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com
Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.
mauro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-24-2005, 02:59 PM   #8
unspellable
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Iowa
Posts: 768
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts
Default

As long as we are giving credit, I believe the bottom Luger in the last picture is the one Luger Doc sold to me. He represented it as used. When I first fired it, I had problems with the disconnector not rengaging. This appeared to be a problem with the trigger lever and resulted in Luger Doc and I sending trigger levers back and forth for a while. In the end we discovered that the pistol had, some where along the line, acquired a vintage Swiss type trigger lever. The dimension of the vintage Swiss and the Mauser re-intro are sufficiently different that the vintage trigger lever would not work properly. But eventually we figured this out, Luger Doc got a lever off to me that fit properly, ands all's well that ends well.
unspellable is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-25-2005, 02:39 PM   #9
mauro
FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT
 
mauro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,535
Thanks: 106
Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts
Default

Hi Noel,
I have used one of the pictures you post to me to explain the differences between the prototype and the normal production. As you can see the last two digits of the serial number have been deleted.
Gerben I remember that a few years ago the Italian importer Bignami imported some reworked byf from Mauser. They were reworked , according to Italian law, in 9*21 caliber and were sold with the Mauser certificate and the test target as well (somewhere I have the magazine were one of this pistol was tested). These pistols were sold before that the Mauser located in Oberndorf ceases the activity.
I guess very difficult that the "current" Mauser is involved in the Luger businnes.
Ciao
Mauro
__________________
Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com
Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.
mauro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-27-2005, 01:50 PM   #10
Vlim
Moderator
Lifetime
LugerForum Patron
 
Vlim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,053
Thanks: 1,036
Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts
Default

Hi Mauro,

I don't think the current 'Mauser Jagdwaffen' has anything to do with Lugers. The pistol production facility went over to Heckler and Koch, together with dr. Rolf Gminder

The late 1990s brochure clearly shows a reworked P08, which is kind of interesting...
Vlim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2024, Lugerforum.com