Persian 4" Mauser Luger

[Maestro]

I thought this was a good variation to discuss.. these photos are from one that is currently for sale (not mine, nor anyone i know, nor am I endorsing the sale of this pistol).. unfortunately or fortunately it has been restored.

This is a 1934-36 Persian Contract gun manufactured by Mauser for the Shah of Iran, formerly known as Persia. This piece is a 4 inch (100mm) 9mm Parabellum for the Persian Military Contract.

[Maestro]

These Iranian/Persian commercial contract Lugers were produced under two separate commercial contracts, one in 1936 and the second one in 1942, with 1,000 pistols ordered in each contract and were made up with both short and long artillery barrel length Luger pistols. These are an extremely rare Luger as almost NO examples were ever released by the Government of Iran.

This is a standard 1908 Model gun designated by collectors as a 1934 Mauser Contract Luger.

The first toggle link is marked with the Farsi script stating Mauser, and there is the "V" rear sight on the rear toggle link and the last two digits of the serial number appear in Farsi.

[Maestro]

...a few more pictures

Serial number placement is in the military ("exposed") style. The serial number appears on the front of the frame, on the bottom of the locking bolt, on the trigger, on the bottom of the barrel, the receiver lug, on the left side of the breech block.

The thumb safety is strawed.

[Maestro]

All the serial numbers and numbering throughout the gun are in Farsi..the numbers appear to be all matching with SN 1131-E

The Serial #1131, is proceeded by the Oberndorf proof and a inspectors proof in Farsi . Then the last two numbers of the serial on the side plate and take down lever.

The Persian Coat of Arms is represented by a Lion with the Sun rising over his back, the right paw is holding a Sword, the left paw a banner, all under a crown.

[DavidJayUden]

Very interesting. Thank you for the lesson , Maestro.
dju

[Maestro]

Originally the Islamic countries operated from a lunar calendar begun with the flight of Mohamed from Mecca to Medina in 622. Persia in an effort to modernize adopted the solar calendar (365 days/yr) in the 1920 but adopted the flight of Mohamed as year one. Therefore, it is believed, that the inscription in Farsi on the right of the receiver reads 1314 but one must add 621 (yrs) to that number to achieve the Model 1935.

Located on the right of the receiver is the Farsi inscription "1314-model short Parabellum pistol". This is commonly interpreted to read Pistol Model 1314 (1935).

Adjacent to that is the Crown Property mark.

There is some question about the total number of Lugers in this contract. Some quote 2000, other state that there were 2000 (@) 100mm and 980 (@) 200mm barrels. Somewhere in the sequential serial numbers for the "Artillery" models is the gap created by Siamese guns.

[Maestro]

...however, according for Member LU1900 from France:

SN 1 to 3000 are P08
Sn 3001 to 4000 are LP18.
And the rarest is le P08 from 3000 made because in service , and not the LP , sold to frankonia and other gunseller

[Maestro]

...and finally to complete my post for your opinions.. this one too has been refinished, with a very low SN 11

With this one being a cutaway example it is estimated that probably no more than 20-30 total were ever produced with this one falling early in the first production. As noted on all Iranian contract Lugers, the markings are all in Farsi and this one is the same, except that there is no Iranian coat of arms on the top of the chamber area as most of that was sectioned anyway, and then obviously it has been cutaway in various areas to show the complete inner workings of the pistol. In all there are 22 different windows cutaway on both sides of the pistol which show how all the parts interface and function together. All the various parts are correctly marked with the Farsi symbols for serial number 11.

[Maestro]

I am curious to hear from members in regards to:
1. Would an advanced collector be interested in this professionally refinished pistol?
2. Would a cut-away add to the value and rarity of this pistol?
3. Price value you would personally place on these two pistols?
Kind regards,
Darius
p.s. you can see where I'm going with this being my next obsession

[Maestro]

its taller cousin the K98 Mauser

[Maestro]

here's another brilliant example sold... appears to be SN 28.

windows cutaway on both sides of the pistol which show how all the parts interface and function together. All the various parts are correctly marked with the Farsi symbols for serial number 28, except the barrel which is numbered in English "18". Also on the left side of the barrel and right side of the trigger have a medium size letter "U" similar to the letter used on rejected parts. It is complete with the original "matching" number magazine.

[ithacaartist]

An Herculean report, for a guy who joined this month...!

I'll bet any collector would like to have these pieces (for the right price--"right" being relative term). The idea is to collect the best examples in your area of interest. The market determines the price, and any gun is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it, at that time. The cutaway is probably going to be darned expensive--one of however few stamped in Farsi. I'd say that's pretty rare, presuming their authenticity. But without someone who wants to collect it, it"d be worthless. So, I'd buy it, if I could afford it. Then, when another one came along, all original and minty, what to do? Well, gotta have that one, too!

[Maestro]

thank you David, I hear you loud and clear brother..
I'll finish off tonight before my Ambien kicks in an I get all screwy here,and leave you all here with the Persian artillery Luger..

[LU1900]

Here the cutaway sn22 with a "G" recever

[LU1900]

And two differents recever from 4" :

[Norme]

Hi Darius, Thanks for that very interesting exposition. Do you happen to know which kind of units were issued the P08s, and which the LP08s?
Regards, Norm

[guns3545]

Darius,

Nice work!

This thread on the other site may also be of interest.

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...hlight=persian

BTW, a letter from Dr. Gminder in my files confirms that 50 cutaways were produced. Mine is SN 37.

Enjoy,

John

[Ben M.]

another one.
http://www.adamsguns.com/luger.htm

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

another one.
http://www.adamsguns.com/luger.htm

Nice link Ben,
in case it disappears, here's a few excerpts:

This Persian contract Luger - new in the original box with factory target, was presented by the Shah to General Evans in 1950 while the General was Chief of the U.S. Military Mission to the Iranian Army.
Engraved (in Farsi) on the side is a personalized inscription from the Iranian Army Center of Motorized and Armored Education to General Evans.

The Iranian Armor School was founded in 1950 and patterned after the United States Army Armor Center. The Chief of the Military Mission was advisor to the Iranian Minister of War, and worked closely with the Commander in Chief (The Shah). We must conclude that General Evans was instrumental in establishing the school.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by guns3545

This thread on the other site may also be of interest.

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...hlight=persian

BTW, a letter from Dr. Gminder in my files confirms that 50 cutaways were produced. Mine is SN 37.

Enjoy,

John

..thanks, here's some excerpts:

We know that approximately 1000 artillery lugers were produced by DWM for Persian or Iran as it is known today. Do we know how many of these 1000 were brought back to the world by any means? Do we have a listing of these guns? We do have the figures for the Siamese artillery lugers. 100 produced and shipped to Siam. 74 bought and imported to the US by the Odin Corporation.I don't know if anyone has tried to document these guns and their locations. Bill H.

Replies:

Joop and Don did some work tracking down the Persian Contract guns, P.08, LP.08 and the Cutaways.

It appears that Chremner of the UK bought a bunch of P.08s and maybe LPs?? They sorted the junk from the good stuff and moved the pieces out through various dealers.

Their only comment on the Artilleries specifically was that 120 of them were acquired by the German firm Frankonia together with a lot of accessories and leather ware and were offered in 1977. These specimens had specific markings required by the German authorities placed on them.

Nothing is specifically mentioned about the remainder but I can tell you that my Persian LP.08 does NOT have these German marks so came to the USA through another channel.

Of interest due to the very high ratio, 39 of the 50 cutaways produced by Mauser for this contract were imported into this country in the 80s by Allen Kelley of Ridgefield Connecticut and 25 were advertised by SN in the Gun Report. Therefore we know a lot about these particular guns. Based on the descriptions, Mauser used every part, irrespective of year in putting these "parts guns" together and they represent an interesting variation in the history of Mauser Foreign Contracts..

lastly,

Goertz and Sturgess have a bit to say about the disposirion of the Persian Contract.

They confirm that most of the P.08s and LP.08s were disposed of in Europe and due to the way they were packed, most were mismatched.

They add, however, that Odin International, Ltd. of Alexandria, VA imported about 100 LP.08s and some P.08s from the Siamese contract into the USA and sold them around 1981.