Breech Block Problem

Vic103 · 09-30-2012, 10:15 AM

Hi guys. I think I need to replace my breech block. I noticed when I orginally got the pistol the metal around the extractor was slightly bubbled (extractor keeper steps hitting top of breech block) Now that I replaced the barrel and have been shooting it alot the problem is getting worse, and I know it just a matter of time before this area fails. The pistol shoots great and I hate to replace the breech block but I know I have to.

Awhile back I got the reproduction breech block from Numrichs. It was pretty nice. It's blued and heat treated. I had to fit it which involved some stoneing and lapping. I got it working real nice but, after I put the pistol back together I was having a failer to eject problem. After trouble shooting I came to the conclusion that block had too big of a chamfer on the ledge of the breech block face causing the caseing to roll downward instead of staying tight aginst the face of the breech so the ejector could pop it out.

So now I am in need of another breech block and I should probely replace the extractor too. I'm wondering if the one I got from Numrichs was just a bad one or would they all be like that?

Pics of old breech block:

wlyon · 09-30-2012, 11:24 AM

Suggest you contact Tom Heller (Lugerdoc) and see what he has in stock. Bill

Terry Tiell · 09-30-2012, 11:42 AM

Also check the for sale section here. I remember someone had a couple whole toggle assemblies for sale about a month or 2 ago.

rhuff · 09-30-2012, 04:28 PM

I purchased one of the newly produced breechblocks for my DWM because I wanted to shoot it a fair amount and didn't want to damage the original breechblock. I purchased mine from either Sarco or Numrich....proably Sarco. Same as you, I had to do a bit of fitting with files, stones etc. I also put in a new extractor and breechblock pin. Once everything was fitted for smooth operation and lubed well, it functioned as I was hoping that it would.....like my original. My DWM is a 30 Luger, but I have a separate upper complete in 9mm also.

I am not sure exactly why you are experiencing the problems that you stated. Are you using an original or reproduction extractor? Is the breechface nice and smooth so that a casehead fits into it nicely once under the extractor?

Lugerdoc · 09-30-2012, 06:01 PM

Mark, I just send your my PM today with several choices of PO8 BBs. I've also fitted several of these new Numrich BBs and find that it's no easy job. In addition to the sides being to wide, the hole for the axel connecting it to the mid toggle link usually has to be opened up for smooth operation. Tom

Vic103 · 09-30-2012, 07:28 PM

Thanks Doc! I will contact you.

rhuff this was my problem:

When the extractor grabs the top of the caseing there is a little drag on lower side of the caseing. With no chamfer the caseing stays trapped (aginst the breech block) and goes back far enough to get poped out by the ejector.

With the chamfer, there is no wall to trap the caseing and it slides down the chamfer before it can get to the ejector and it just drops

rhuff · 10-02-2012, 04:16 PM

Thank you for the illustration. I just checked my original compared to my reproduction breechblock, and see what you are talking about. I have to admit that I had never noticed it before. I had put a light polish on the lower lip of my original breechblock to aid in feeding, so it was tough to see everything clearly for the comparison.

Perhaps I am just lucky with my reproduction breechblock(which usually does not happen to me), for it has functioned every bit as reliably as my original. So much so, that I have entertained the thought of purchasing another to have as a spare. They are a bit over sized, but you, like myself, were able to fit it to the barrel extension.

I will definitely be interested in your future approach and results in an attempt to produce a 100% reliable Luger.

Vlim · 10-02-2012, 05:52 PM

Vic, out of curiosity, did you experience the problem while working the toggle by hand, or during shooting?

It is not unusual for the round to drop in the frame when you work the toggle by hand, especially without a magazine inserted.

Under normal conditions, ejecting is also facilitated by the force of the magazine spring pushing the next round upwards.

rhuff · 10-03-2012, 04:06 PM

What Vilm has stated above is most definitely another facet of the entire ejection process under artificial vs actual firing. The weight of the unfired cartridge, while the Luger is held in the firing position, and the toggle is opened by hand can definitely misrepresent what actually happens when fired.

If I am going to manually cycle dummy(no powder, no primer) rounds through a Luger to check for extraction, I rotate the Luger 90 degrees to the left to allow the cartridge to remain positioned correctly on the breechface. This works for me.

The function of the magazine has a lot to do with the correct functioning of the extraction process, although some don't agree.

Curly1 · 10-03-2012, 11:13 PM

If it is a reproduction BB why would they not make it the same?

Vic103 · 10-12-2012, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Vic, out of curiosity, did you experience the problem while working the toggle by hand, or during shooting?

When I was working it by hand. I never thought of live fireing it if it did not work by hand. I know my orginal breech block would eject a shell by hand so I assumed the Numerich repo one should do the same. But it does make sence that the blow back from live fireing would help eject the shell, but I never tried it.

Well any way, I got my new old (unnumbered C/N DWM commerical P08 breech block with a internally numbered DMW extractor assy installed) from the Lugerdoc. Thanks Lugerdoc!!! Oh and thanks wlyon for making the awesome suggestion for me to contact the Lugerdoc!

This new old breech even helped with my headspace, it was at the max. Now it's in the mean. I probley gained about .008 thousands..............AWESOME!

Oh and by the way the new old breech block ejects the shell by hand.............iceing on the cake..............Yum!

Grabs the shell:

Holds the shell all the way back to the ejector:

You can see the nice straight walls of the breech block surrounding the face that the end of the shell seats on, no chamfer:

Can't wait to go shoot!!!!

Thanks guys

Lugerdoc · 10-13-2012, 10:43 AM

Vic, Glad to learn all is well. Thanks, TH

rhuff · 10-14-2012, 04:26 PM

Many of us look forward to a range report on your "new" parts. I so hope that the parts have made your Luger into a great shooter....Good luck!!

Vic103 · 11-04-2012, 01:51 PM

Hi guys, I finally made to the range. The Luger preformed awesome!! I usually shoot PMC 9mm Luger ammo (I have found that works the best). But all I had was crappy Federal (I always have problems when I run this in my Luger). I shot 50 rounds with out one single problem! I'm very happy with my new old breech block and extractor. Once again thank you Lugerdoc!

rhuff · 11-04-2012, 04:01 PM

I love it when a plan comes together......Enjoy!!

09-30-2012, 10:15 AM	#1
Vic103 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Breech Block Problem Hi guys. I think I need to replace my breech block. I noticed when I orginally got the pistol the metal around the extractor was slightly bubbled (extractor keeper steps hitting top of breech block) Now that I replaced the barrel and have been shooting it alot the problem is getting worse, and I know it just a matter of time before this area fails. The pistol shoots great and I hate to replace the breech block but I know I have to. Awhile back I got the reproduction breech block from Numrichs. It was pretty nice. It's blued and heat treated. I had to fit it which involved some stoneing and lapping. I got it working real nice but, after I put the pistol back together I was having a failer to eject problem. After trouble shooting I came to the conclusion that block had too big of a chamfer on the ledge of the breech block face causing the caseing to roll downward instead of staying tight aginst the face of the breech so the ejector could pop it out. So now I am in need of another breech block and I should probely replace the extractor too. I'm wondering if the one I got from Numrichs was just a bad one or would they all be like that? Pics of old breech block:

09-30-2012, 11:24 AM	#2
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,652 Thanks: 3,210 Thanked 2,613 Times in 969 Posts	Suggest you contact Tom Heller (Lugerdoc) and see what he has in stock. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

09-30-2012, 11:42 AM	#3
Terry Tiell User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The Fascist State of Maryland Posts: 224 Thanks: 55 Thanked 26 Times in 14 Posts	Also check the for sale section here. I remember someone had a couple whole toggle assemblies for sale about a month or 2 ago. __________________ Trying to redo grand dads Luger the best I can.

09-30-2012, 06:01 PM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Mark, I just send your my PM today with several choices of PO8 BBs. I've also fitted several of these new Numrich BBs and find that it's no easy job. In addition to the sides being to wide, the hole for the axel connecting it to the mid toggle link usually has to be opened up for smooth operation. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-03-2012, 11:13 PM	#10
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,244 Thanks: 125 Thanked 715 Times in 372 Posts	If it is a reproduction BB why would they not make it the same? __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

09-30-2012, 04:28 PM	#4
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,305 Thanks: 2,735 Thanked 991 Times in 727 Posts	I purchased one of the newly produced breechblocks for my DWM because I wanted to shoot it a fair amount and didn't want to damage the original breechblock. I purchased mine from either Sarco or Numrich....proably Sarco. Same as you, I had to do a bit of fitting with files, stones etc. I also put in a new extractor and breechblock pin. Once everything was fitted for smooth operation and lubed well, it functioned as I was hoping that it would.....like my original. My DWM is a 30 Luger, but I have a separate upper complete in 9mm also. I am not sure exactly why you are experiencing the problems that you stated. Are you using an original or reproduction extractor? Is the breechface nice and smooth so that a casehead fits into it nicely once under the extractor?

09-30-2012, 07:28 PM	#6
Vic103 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Thanks Doc! I will contact you. rhuff this was my problem: When the extractor grabs the top of the caseing there is a little drag on lower side of the caseing. With no chamfer the caseing stays trapped (aginst the breech block) and goes back far enough to get poped out by the ejector. With the chamfer, there is no wall to trap the caseing and it slides down the chamfer before it can get to the ejector and it just drops

10-02-2012, 04:16 PM	#7
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,305 Thanks: 2,735 Thanked 991 Times in 727 Posts	Thank you for the illustration. I just checked my original compared to my reproduction breechblock, and see what you are talking about. I have to admit that I had never noticed it before. I had put a light polish on the lower lip of my original breechblock to aid in feeding, so it was tough to see everything clearly for the comparison. Perhaps I am just lucky with my reproduction breechblock(which usually does not happen to me), for it has functioned every bit as reliably as my original. So much so, that I have entertained the thought of purchasing another to have as a spare. They are a bit over sized, but you, like myself, were able to fit it to the barrel extension. I will definitely be interested in your future approach and results in an attempt to produce a 100% reliable Luger.

10-02-2012, 05:52 PM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Vic, out of curiosity, did you experience the problem while working the toggle by hand, or during shooting? It is not unusual for the round to drop in the frame when you work the toggle by hand, especially without a magazine inserted. Under normal conditions, ejecting is also facilitated by the force of the magazine spring pushing the next round upwards.

10-03-2012, 04:06 PM	#9
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,305 Thanks: 2,735 Thanked 991 Times in 727 Posts	What Vilm has stated above is most definitely another facet of the entire ejection process under artificial vs actual firing. The weight of the unfired cartridge, while the Luger is held in the firing position, and the toggle is opened by hand can definitely misrepresent what actually happens when fired. If I am going to manually cycle dummy(no powder, no primer) rounds through a Luger to check for extraction, I rotate the Luger 90 degrees to the left to allow the cartridge to remain positioned correctly on the breechface. This works for me. The function of the magazine has a lot to do with the correct functioning of the extraction process, although some don't agree.

10-13-2012, 10:43 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Vic, Glad to learn all is well. Thanks, TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-14-2012, 04:26 PM	#13
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,305 Thanks: 2,735 Thanked 991 Times in 727 Posts	Many of us look forward to a range report on your "new" parts. I so hope that the parts have made your Luger into a great shooter....Good luck!!

11-04-2012, 01:51 PM	#14
Vic103 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Hi guys, I finally made to the range. The Luger preformed awesome!! I usually shoot PMC 9mm Luger ammo (I have found that works the best). But all I had was crappy Federal (I always have problems when I run this in my Luger). I shot 50 rounds with out one single problem! I'm very happy with my new old breech block and extractor. Once again thank you Lugerdoc!

11-04-2012, 04:01 PM	#15
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,305 Thanks: 2,735 Thanked 991 Times in 727 Posts	I love it when a plan comes together......Enjoy!!