proud to present to you, 1910 made parabellum ....

[wolfganggo]

have a fine day gentleman,

last week i was able to buy an pretty 1910 buildt parabellum from an auktion here in austria.

according to my fragmentary knowledge and the books i have read, i think this is an mostly original piece.
so let me present this to you, to deepen my knowledge from you comments and to get some other opinions from the specialist woldwide ...

magazin is not matching, but i think, from the right periode, i could see only on acceptance, so i think it's an DWM.
gripstrap marked with "12.H.5.14, so i think it originates from thueringische husarenregiment nr. 12, see also wikipediapost (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%B...egiment_Nr._12)

sorry for the watermarks, but i experimented a bit with HDR pictures and al is a litte bit in an testphase


regrads, wolfganggo ....


.

[pitsword]

Nice Pistol. Great photos. Thank you for sharing.

[Edward Tinker]

nice 1910

congrats

[drbuster]

Wolfganggo, very nice original 1910. This has definitely not been messed with. Of interest, notice the "117" marked on the rear of the frame. Any ideas?

[wolfganggo]

Originally Posted by drbuster

.... Of interest, notice the "117" marked on the rear of the frame. Any ideas?

no i have no idea about this number, hope that forum members can help ...

wolfganggo ....

[klaus 3338]

The 117 should be a provisorische Stempelung during the early Weimar time.

[wolfganggo]

you mentioned a "provisorische stempelung" during weimar era.
any further information about that, somthing to read for me, books, leaflets, documents ??

grüße aus wien .....

[klaus 3338]

Darüber hatte ich schon wiederholt berichtet; das Stempeln und Bezeichnen von Infanteriewaffen und infanteristischem Waffengerät wurde von der Heeresverwaltung geregelt und im Heeres- Verordnungsblatt vom 9 April 1921 veröffentlicht. Da eine verbindliche Stempelvorschrift noch nicht vorlag und sich die bisherige Heeresstruktur wegen der Einschränkungen durch die Entente Staaten verändert hatte, somit die alten Stempelvorschriften nicht angewendet werden konnten, sollten die Infanteriewaffen einen provisorischen Stempel an einer geeigneten Stelle bekommen, aber die Stellen für den endgültigen Stempel freilassen. Welche Waffen gestempelt wurden oblag dem Ermessenspielraum der jeweiligen Truppenkommandeure. Man kann sich somit ausrechnen, warum so wenige P08 mit dem provisorischen Stempel versehen wurden.

[Ron Wood]

The marking may very well be a Weimar provisional stamp applied for weapons control and accountability after the armistice. However, I do not see any other evidence that the gun was used during the Weimar era. If it had been I would expect to see the former WWI unit marking crossed out. It is uncertain when the number was applied but it almost certainly was what we call a "rack number" used for inventory control, whether it was a Weimar organization, museum, etc.

[tenbears]

I agree with Ron on the (rack number) if used during the Weimar era other than the 117 somehow the Luger remained unmessed with, which is very possible. I have a WWI S9805 bayonet that is completely rust blued which was a common practice during the Weimar and early Nazi era for Police bayonets. But that was all that was done to it. The WWI unit marks have not been crossed out or a 1920 property mark added.

[wolfganggo]

danke für die information, are you able to send me a copy of the mentioned heeresverordnungsblatt ??
just to read for me at the evening ...

grüße, wolfganggo .....

[wolfganggo]

there is a little detail, i dont know if it is meaningful or not.
according to görtz (die pistole 08) the bolts of military parabellums were adapted with the grooving about 1930.

he mentioned, that pistols without grooving on the bolt were possibly already in privat hands at this time.

can you gentleman agree with him in this point, maybe this will be a clue for this discussion.

the shown 1910 has no grooving at the bolt, so possibly already private ....


regarsd, wolfganggo .....

[alanint]

Are you referring to the relief cuts in the firing pin? I'm not aware of any major changes in the bolts themselves.

[wolfganggo]

Originally Posted by alanint

Are you referring to the relief cuts in the firing pin? I'm not aware of any major changes in the bolts themselves.

yes, talking about the relief cuts in the firing pin ......
sorry, here in austria "bolzen, schlagbolzen" translated "bolt", is an common expresion for the firing pin


wolfganggo .....

[mrerick]

The "fluted" firing pin was introduced, as you mentioned, by Mauser in the 1930s. This relief helped prevent damage to the breech block rear when gasses blew back through the primer if it was punctured.

Matching firing pins of earlier Lugers would not be expected to have this fluting. It is normal, and not an indication of privatization.

It is also a reason for considering getting a fluted firing pin for older Lugers that you intend to shoot.

Marc

[wolfganggo]

Originally Posted by mrerick

.... Matching firing pins of earlier Lugers would not be expected to have this fluting. It is normal, and not an indication of privatization.

It is also a reason for considering getting a fluted firing pin for older Lugers that you intend to shoot.

Marc

1.) reading the book "die pistole 08" penned by görtz, i think to remember he wrote, that around 1930 they altered all parabellums in possession of the reichswehr. this is the reason why görtz presumes that unalted firing pins, could be an indication of privatisation of this psitol, else the amourers would have altered the firing pin.

2.) thx for your kind advice to change the firing pin befor shooting the pistol but i do not intend to shoot this old lady anyway


regrads from austria, wolfganggo ....