"Rare" Arty Stock

Ron Wood · 02-04-2007, 10:39 PM

A repro "1913 Artillery Stock/Holster" just sold for $900 on eBay. As far as I know, BATF has not exempted this stock for use on an Artillery Luger. The only Arty that could be considered legal for this stock would be the prototype 1913 Artillery, of which there may be one or two in existence. Someone just dropped a bundle on something that is not even legal to own if you have any Luger of any description with a stock lug. Please correct me if I am wrong.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=018

Conny · 02-05-2007, 12:41 AM

Ron,
I noticed that holster stock on eBay also. I sent a letter to BATF the first day it was on auction to verify if legal to own/use with an Artillery Luger. I hope to get a response in a couple more days. BATF usually takes 7-10 days to respond. At least that is how long it took for them to answer my Colt .45 shoulder stock questions.

Like most collectors, I would rather be legal than in doubt.

Imperial Arms · 02-05-2007, 11:37 AM

According to reality, it is legal to buy any stock for an LP-08. In some cases, if the stock is attached to an LP-08, then it becomes illegal. Therefore, keep the pistol and stock separate in your private home if the combination would be considered illegal.

Albert

Ron Wood · 02-05-2007, 11:54 AM

Hi Albert - good to hear from you.
If you possess a shoulder stock without the correct corresponding Luger and you own any other Luger with a stock lug there is the tacit implication that you own the components of a short barreled rifle. I wouldn't want to bet my collection and/or a vacation at club fed that any legal action would conform to your "according to reality" premise.

Conny · 02-05-2007, 12:16 PM

As soon as I get clarification, I'll post the entire email from BATF. Surprizingly, BATF does respond in a timely manner.

lew1 · 02-06-2007, 08:18 AM

Another of these stocks is now listed on Ebay, and one of the pictures seem to show the stock connected to the pistol.

http://cgi.ebay.com/luger-holster-s...tem320079792411

(I had accidently posted this in the wrong thread, so I deleted it there and posted it here.)

jl7422 · 02-06-2007, 11:28 AM

"Model 1913" reproduction stocks --such as this one on ebay--were being offered at last December's SARS show in Phoenix. The same vendor was also offering repro. Carbine stocks, and one called the "Parabellum C-96 Type". I picked up the flyer and stuffed it in the backpack we drag around the show to haul such things--just dug it out last night.

The "C-96 Type" was a new one to me. The literature states it is a copy of the "shoulder holster originally offered in the 1929 Stoeger Catalog". It appears very much like a Broomhandle stock, only lengthened to accomodate the LP-08's barrel. I've never seen any reference to this type of stock, but I'm relatively new to LP-08's. . .

All of the "retail" prices listed on the flyer were less than the ebay winning bid price. . . guess I should have laid-in a couple for resale!

John

Big Norm · 02-06-2007, 01:06 PM

Ron,
I totally agree with you on the price of this stock (?). I was shocked. From pictures that I have seen in my books, the butt isn't even a close reproduction. But I would have to agree with Albert that as long as you don't take it out of the house (private property), you can have it. Just don't take it to a shooting range and show it off to your friends.
But this isn't the first time that I have been shocked by prices on Ebay. I am physically numb at the prices for Jan Stills books. I bought two sets to help my nephews ease into Luger collecting. They were still in the plastic wrap. I gave one set to a nephew and still have the second set. I think that I may have a little talk with my nephew about that set that I gave him. (I love him, but...) Maybe I will trade that set that I still have still in the wrappings for a nice 1914 DWM LP-08 with unit marks, 2 matching mags and a matching stock. I'll negotiate about a dated 1914 LP-08 holster with all the straps. (with the above mentioned gun, of course).
Can you imagine how Jan feels when he sees the prices on his books going for $250 or so when he was selling them for $60 just a couple of years ago? About the same way that I now feel for only buying two sets. Where is that duplicating machine?
Big Norm

Ray · 02-06-2007, 01:59 PM

I have seen some literature from the Key Company that
states that the BATF has approved this 1913 style as OK
for attachment to an artillery. For whats it worth. Its hard
to imagine that a company could make up this type of luger
stock and not have some governmental approval.

Big Norm · 02-06-2007, 02:25 PM

Ray,
I don't know about the Key Company that you mentioned. But we have some pretty good handy dandy people on this forum who are capable of making pretty good reproductions of just about anything. (Hugh is a good example). There was another guy here a long time ago, who made a stock/holster for the 1900-06 American Eagle that looked pretty darn good in his pictures. These people may make these things, on their own, without any government approval. Accomplished, yes. Legal, I don't know.

It is hard for me to imagine that an artillery stock like this was made in 1913. Erfurt started designing the artillery in 1911, proposed it in 1913 and didn't let out a contract until 1914. That didn't leave a lot of time for someone to design and manufacture a holster/stock for the artillery. Just my ramblings.

Just more ramblings. I got 1600 posts now. Isn't that the address of the White House in Washington DC? I wonder if I can get President Bush to treat me to a base ball game with some hot dogs and some beer as a reward. I just hope that it isn't between the Detroit Tigers and the Texas Rangers. I might end up paying for everything out of my pocket.

Big Norm

02-04-2007, 10:39 PM	#1
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	"Rare" Arty Stock A repro "1913 Artillery Stock/Holster" just sold for $900 on eBay. As far as I know, BATF has not exempted this stock for use on an Artillery Luger. The only Arty that could be considered legal for this stock would be the prototype 1913 Artillery, of which there may be one or two in existence. Someone just dropped a bundle on something that is not even legal to own if you have any Luger of any description with a stock lug. Please correct me if I am wrong. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=018 __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-05-2007, 12:41 AM	#2
Conny User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Culpeper, Va. Posts: 279 Thanks: 0 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Ron, I noticed that holster stock on eBay also. I sent a letter to BATF the first day it was on auction to verify if legal to own/use with an Artillery Luger. I hope to get a response in a couple more days. BATF usually takes 7-10 days to respond. At least that is how long it took for them to answer my Colt .45 shoulder stock questions. Like most collectors, I would rather be legal than in doubt. __________________ Rangers Lead the Way, Duane Leiker

02-05-2007, 11:54 AM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Hi Albert - good to hear from you. If you possess a shoulder stock without the correct corresponding Luger and you own any other Luger with a stock lug there is the tacit implication that you own the components of a short barreled rifle. I wouldn't want to bet my collection and/or a vacation at club fed that any legal action would conform to your "according to reality" premise. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-05-2007, 12:16 PM	#5
Conny User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Culpeper, Va. Posts: 279 Thanks: 0 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	As soon as I get clarification, I'll post the entire email from BATF. Surprizingly, BATF does respond in a timely manner. __________________ Rangers Lead the Way, Duane Leiker

02-06-2007, 08:18 AM	#6
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	Another of these stocks is now listed on Ebay, and one of the pictures seem to show the stock connected to the pistol. http://cgi.ebay.com/luger-holster-s...tem320079792411 (I had accidently posted this in the wrong thread, so I deleted it there and posted it here.) __________________ charlie

02-05-2007, 11:37 AM	#3
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	According to reality, it is legal to buy any stock for an LP-08. In some cases, if the stock is attached to an LP-08, then it becomes illegal. Therefore, keep the pistol and stock separate in your private home if the combination would be considered illegal. Albert

02-06-2007, 11:28 AM	#7
jl7422 User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: West Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	"Model 1913" reproduction stocks --such as this one on ebay--were being offered at last December's SARS show in Phoenix. The same vendor was also offering repro. Carbine stocks, and one called the "Parabellum C-96 Type". I picked up the flyer and stuffed it in the backpack we drag around the show to haul such things--just dug it out last night. The "C-96 Type" was a new one to me. The literature states it is a copy of the "shoulder holster originally offered in the 1929 Stoeger Catalog". It appears very much like a Broomhandle stock, only lengthened to accomodate the LP-08's barrel. I've never seen any reference to this type of stock, but I'm relatively new to LP-08's. . . All of the "retail" prices listed on the flyer were less than the ebay winning bid price. . . guess I should have laid-in a couple for resale! John

02-06-2007, 01:06 PM	#8
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ron, I totally agree with you on the price of this stock (?). I was shocked. From pictures that I have seen in my books, the butt isn't even a close reproduction. But I would have to agree with Albert that as long as you don't take it out of the house (private property), you can have it. Just don't take it to a shooting range and show it off to your friends. But this isn't the first time that I have been shocked by prices on Ebay. I am physically numb at the prices for Jan Stills books. I bought two sets to help my nephews ease into Luger collecting. They were still in the plastic wrap. I gave one set to a nephew and still have the second set. I think that I may have a little talk with my nephew about that set that I gave him. (I love him, but...) Maybe I will trade that set that I still have still in the wrappings for a nice 1914 DWM LP-08 with unit marks, 2 matching mags and a matching stock. I'll negotiate about a dated 1914 LP-08 holster with all the straps. (with the above mentioned gun, of course). Can you imagine how Jan feels when he sees the prices on his books going for $250 or so when he was selling them for $60 just a couple of years ago? About the same way that I now feel for only buying two sets. Where is that duplicating machine? Big Norm

02-06-2007, 01:59 PM	#9
Ray Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 126 Thanks: 2 Thanked 37 Times in 16 Posts	I have seen some literature from the Key Company that states that the BATF has approved this 1913 style as OK for attachment to an artillery. For whats it worth. Its hard to imagine that a company could make up this type of luger stock and not have some governmental approval.

02-06-2007, 02:25 PM	#10
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ray, I don't know about the Key Company that you mentioned. But we have some pretty good handy dandy people on this forum who are capable of making pretty good reproductions of just about anything. (Hugh is a good example). There was another guy here a long time ago, who made a stock/holster for the 1900-06 American Eagle that looked pretty darn good in his pictures. These people may make these things, on their own, without any government approval. Accomplished, yes. Legal, I don't know. It is hard for me to imagine that an artillery stock like this was made in 1913. Erfurt started designing the artillery in 1911, proposed it in 1913 and didn't let out a contract until 1914. That didn't leave a lot of time for someone to design and manufacture a holster/stock for the artillery. Just my ramblings. Just more ramblings. I got 1600 posts now. Isn't that the address of the White House in Washington DC? I wonder if I can get President Bush to treat me to a base ball game with some hot dogs and some beer as a reward. I just hope that it isn't between the Detroit Tigers and the Texas Rangers. I might end up paying for everything out of my pocket. Big Norm