What is this marking (1916 DWM)

walleyealx · 10-31-2020, 08:45 PM

There's an Nickel'd all matching 1916 DWM at a local pawn shop. I think it looks cool and I'm pretty sure I can get it cheap. All of the markings make sense to me except this one. In person it looks like an anchor over an "N". Any thought?

Thanks ahead of time

walleyealx · 10-31-2020, 08:46 PM

https://ibb.co/Scx1pMd

I can't get the picture to upload to this site so I just put a link here. Sorry about that.

spangy · 10-31-2020, 08:51 PM

I took the liberty of enlarging it for upload here walleyealx ... hope you don't mind

The 'marking' appears to be scratched into the surface before the gun got nickel'd + I have never seen a mark on the ear before and don't believe its 'official'

walleyealx · 01-18-2021, 01:26 PM

Any thoughts?

Doubs · 01-18-2021, 01:41 PM

I agree with Spangy. It's not a normal marking and not official for any organization.

FWIW, I have an alphabet commercial Luger in .30 caliber that has been nickel plated. It has been 100% reliable so far and is very accurate. If you can get that Luger at the right price, it may prove to be a fine shooter.

Heinz · 01-18-2021, 04:10 PM

Looks like there may be a lot of pitting before it was chromes. Give it a close look before buying.

gunbugs · 01-18-2021, 07:11 PM

Around here, if they are chromed instead of nickled, we call 'em "Bumper guns". 'Cause chrome is what you put on your Pontiac's bumper.

Heinz · 01-18-2021, 08:28 PM

my understanding is the electroplating process takes two or three steps,, the first plate is copper, the second plating is nickel and the third plating is chrome. I do not know if that is still the process but it was once. So chrome was a step beyond nickel. Nickel has a softer look, more like silver, and I like it better, but it was cheaper.

walleyealx · 01-18-2021, 08:50 PM

Thanks for the input guys. I know they aren't collectors pieces to most but I think the story behind them is very cool. The pawn shop is asking too much right now but they've had it for at least a few months so I'm hoping they'll start working with me.

DonVoigt · 01-19-2021, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heinz

my understanding is the electroplating process takes two or three steps,, the first plate is copper, the second plating is nickel and the third plating is chrome. I do not know if that is still the process but it was once. So chrome was a step beyond nickel. Nickel has a softer look, more like silver, and I like it better, but it was cheaper.

No need to plate chrome over nickel.
Copper is the base "coat" for either, then either nickel or chrome.

Chrome is harder and "shiny-er".

Nickel salts are more expensive than chrome salts- it's a volume thing- or was when lots of plating was being done.

The minor cost of the actual very small amount of metal, should not enter into the equation in the final cost of a plating job- unless it is a "marketing" driven way to make more $$.

Heinz · 01-20-2021, 12:00 AM

I checked Wikipedia and several other sites to see if "copper-nickel-chrome" is still used. "Copper Nickel Crome is still a common process for quality plating over ferrous metals.

http://www.verneschromeplating.com/index.html gives a nice take on it
and
from Wiki plating
Chrome plating[edit]
Main article: Chrome plating
Chrome plating is a finishing treatment using the electrolytic deposition of chromium. The most common form of chrome plating is the thin, decorative bright chrome, which is typically a 10-μm layer over an underlying nickel plate. When plating on iron or steel, an underlying plating of copper allows the nickel to adhere. The pores (tiny holes) in the nickel and chromium layers work to alleviate stress caused by thermal expansion mismatch but also hurt the corrosion resistance of the coating.

My point was dismissing "Chrome" as "Bumper guns" is clever but neglects the realities of the process. I own one chrome plated beauty and I will see if I can hunt up photos.

Heinz · 01-20-2021, 12:24 AM

here we go, sadly this is a really early production Browning with nice provenance, including the GI who brought it home and probably plated it. This one I know was Copper-nickel-chrome.

rhuff · 01-20-2021, 03:39 PM

I still own a couple of handguns that were chrome plated many, many years ago. One is a old 1911 Colt!!! They are SHINEY!!

DonVoigt · 01-21-2021, 10:27 AM

Heinz,
thanks for the info on "triple chrome".

I think the "bumper gun" reference was to the many guns post WWII that were plated in
Chroming shops dedicated to renewal of the old steel with chrome plating car bumpers.

These shops popped up everywhere after returning GI's started small businesses and there were many old cars to be repaired or dressed up.

Nothing negative about a bumper gun-
just that it was likely chrome plated in a "Bumper Shop".

JMHO

I searched for and bought my own "chrome" luger - just for this historic connection to the
GI's that brought them back and wanted them to look "special" - and they were plated by
other GI's just making a living.

Heinz · 01-21-2021, 12:58 PM

Thank you Don, I considered redoing that 1910 browning but decided it was part of it story. It does have a 4 digit serial number and is matching. I had a friend who was a "translator" in Belgium when he liberated this pistol from a small town German appointed mayor.

I was influenced by the great job they did on the pistol, not softening the edges or blurring the stampings. It sort of says "We won and this is how we like them"

10-31-2020, 08:45 PM	#1
walleyealx User Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	What is this marking (1916 DWM) There's an Nickel'd all matching 1916 DWM at a local pawn shop. I think it looks cool and I'm pretty sure I can get it cheap. All of the markings make sense to me except this one. In person it looks like an anchor over an "N". Any thought? Thanks ahead of time

01-20-2021, 12:24 AM	#12
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	here we go, sadly this is a really early production Browning with nice provenance, including the GI who brought it home and probably plated it. This one I know was Copper-nickel-chrome. Attached Thumbnails

01-20-2021, 03:39 PM	#13
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	I still own a couple of handguns that were chrome plated many, many years ago. One is a old 1911 Colt!!! They are SHINEY!! __________________ Need DWM breechblock #21

01-21-2021, 10:27 AM	#14
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Heinz, thanks for the info on "triple chrome". I think the "bumper gun" reference was to the many guns post WWII that were plated in Chroming shops dedicated to renewal of the old steel with chrome plating car bumpers. These shops popped up everywhere after returning GI's started small businesses and there were many old cars to be repaired or dressed up. Nothing negative about a bumper gun- just that it was likely chrome plated in a "Bumper Shop". JMHO I searched for and bought my own "chrome" luger - just for this historic connection to the GI's that brought them back and wanted them to look "special" - and they were plated by other GI's just making a living. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

10-31-2020, 08:46 PM	#2
walleyealx User Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	https://ibb.co/Scx1pMd I can't get the picture to upload to this site so I just put a link here. Sorry about that.

10-31-2020, 08:51 PM	#3
spangy Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 607 Thanks: 2,984 Thanked 1,047 Times in 422 Posts	I took the liberty of enlarging it for upload here walleyealx ... hope you don't mind The 'marking' appears to be scratched into the surface before the gun got nickel'd + I have never seen a mark on the ear before and don't believe its 'official'

01-18-2021, 01:26 PM	#4
walleyealx User Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Any thoughts?

01-18-2021, 01:41 PM	#5
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	I agree with Spangy. It's not a normal marking and not official for any organization. FWIW, I have an alphabet commercial Luger in .30 caliber that has been nickel plated. It has been 100% reliable so far and is very accurate. If you can get that Luger at the right price, it may prove to be a fine shooter.

01-18-2021, 04:10 PM	#6
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Looks like there may be a lot of pitting before it was chromes. Give it a close look before buying.

01-18-2021, 07:11 PM	#7
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 635 Thanks: 335 Thanked 1,139 Times in 377 Posts	Around here, if they are chromed instead of nickled, we call 'em "Bumper guns". 'Cause chrome is what you put on your Pontiac's bumper.

01-18-2021, 08:28 PM	#8
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	my understanding is the electroplating process takes two or three steps,, the first plate is copper, the second plating is nickel and the third plating is chrome. I do not know if that is still the process but it was once. So chrome was a step beyond nickel. Nickel has a softer look, more like silver, and I like it better, but it was cheaper.

01-18-2021, 08:50 PM	#9
walleyealx User Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Thanks for the input guys. I know they aren't collectors pieces to most but I think the story behind them is very cool. The pawn shop is asking too much right now but they've had it for at least a few months so I'm hoping they'll start working with me.

01-20-2021, 12:00 AM	#11
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	I checked Wikipedia and several other sites to see if "copper-nickel-chrome" is still used. "Copper Nickel Crome is still a common process for quality plating over ferrous metals. http://www.verneschromeplating.com/index.html gives a nice take on it and from Wiki plating Chrome plating[edit] Main article: Chrome plating Chrome plating is a finishing treatment using the electrolytic deposition of chromium. The most common form of chrome plating is the thin, decorative bright chrome, which is typically a 10-μm layer over an underlying nickel plate. When plating on iron or steel, an underlying plating of copper allows the nickel to adhere. The pores (tiny holes) in the nickel and chromium layers work to alleviate stress caused by thermal expansion mismatch but also hurt the corrosion resistance of the coating. My point was dismissing "Chrome" as "Bumper guns" is clever but neglects the realities of the process. I own one chrome plated beauty and I will see if I can hunt up photos.

01-21-2021, 12:58 PM	#15
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Thank you Don, I considered redoing that 1910 browning but decided it was part of it story. It does have a 4 digit serial number and is matching. I had a friend who was a "translator" in Belgium when he liberated this pistol from a small town German appointed mayor. I was influenced by the great job they did on the pistol, not softening the edges or blurring the stampings. It sort of says "We won and this is how we like them"