Lugers 2B Illegal in NY???

[jonnyc]

http://entertainment.verizon.com/new....org%3E&ps=931

[calibrator]

Reading the text provided is confusing. You will have 1 year to sell your mags out-of-state (as per the article). The only criteria to be considered an Assault Weapon here, is that it has a pistol grip. Remington should move to a right-to-work state, it's current workers are unionized and are ... ? Sounds like G.T. needs to come up with some bottoms that will make loading more than 7 rds impossible. This is a "Closed Door" deal, I'm sure there will be no antique or C&R exemption, as written.

[jonnyc]

Who knows what the final draft will say, but 7 round mags will surely affect lots of firearms!

[John Sabato]

For everyone's information Triple-K Luger magazines, (which admittedly are NOT my favorite mags, )only hold 7 rounds...

IF you are forced to comply with this ridiculous requirement, you can take your magazine apart, or pay someone else to do it and gently epoxy a spacer onto the top of the mag bottom that is the same thickness as a cartridge to reduce the capacity to 7 rounds.

[DavidJayUden]

Unfortunately, the BATF is not warm to the idea of gently gluing anything into place in order to fit their requirements. Usually a cuttting torch comes into play somewhere in the process.
dju

[John Sabato]

The BATFE (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) would not come into play unless this ridiculous requirement were enacted as law on the federal level. The law in question is in the NY State legislature... and hopefully they will do as sloppy a job with this law as the original assault weapons ban was on the federal level... Politicians are not real bright on subjects that they have no real background on...

[Jack Lawman]

The way I understand it, any mag owned prior to this ban which holds ten or less rounds will be legal to hold onto. If you take a legal to own 10 rounder and load it with more than 7 rounds, you're a felon.

Owning any mag holding more than 10 rounds will make you a felon (there is an exemption for C&R mags). 1 year to dispose of previously owned mags.... must go to dealer or out of state.

Registration of all assault rifles (assault rifle definition expanded to any semi-auto with detachable mag and 1 evil feature).

All gun sales (including to your neighbor across the fence) must have NICS check.

Assault rifle sales are banned. Existing, registered assault rifles can only be transferred to a NYS dealer (who can't sell it in NY) or out of state (presumably to have all assault rifles out of the state in a few generations... the confiscation will occur long before this happens).

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, only my amateur interpretation of PROPOSED legislation. The text of the bill leaves certain matters unclear.

As of this posting, it is not law. It has passed the state senate (traditional burial ground of BS like this). The assembly, loaded with NYC democrats are VERY likely to pass it in a few hours and the governor is chomping at the bit to sign it.

This show may be playing soon in a theater near you! New York is so far gone, the Republicans literally rolled over. Better luck to you guys.

Jack

[mrerick]

The New York law (a draconian assault on 2nd Amendment rights) was passed and signed today.

Most Luger magazines can still be owned, just not loaded with more than 7 cartridges:

New York's law, called the Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act:

• Bans possession of any high-capacity magazines regardless of when they were made or sold. Only clips able to hold up to seven rounds can be sold in the state. Clips able to hold seven to 10 rounds can be possessed, but cannot be loaded with more than seven rounds. If an owner is found to have eight or more bullets in a magazine, he or she could face a felony (not misdemeanor as previously mentioned) charge.

See Jack's post below. Looks like they exempted C&R items, as long as you don't put more than 7 rounds into them. So I was incorrect when originally posting this. Trommel Magazines that are C&R would be OK to possess.

Marc

[Olle]

Originally Posted by mrerick

If you have a trommel magazine, it's banned. You can no longer legally own it in New York.

So there's no grandfather clause for those who already have them?

[Jack Lawman]

I believe trommel mags will be good, but you must REGISTER them. They fit into the C&R exception. Any modern 10+ mags will become illegal. All the grandfathered mags (pre 94) will become illegal. This includes pistol mags. All 10 rounders in the state by today will be grandfathered. NO NEW 10 ROUNDERS ALLOWED -- 7 ROUND LIMT. So, when you buy a Beretta 92 tomorrow, you can't take it with the previously NY legal 10 rounder. You have to wait until someone makes a 7 rounder.

Looks like you have one year to get rid of your old, previously legal, 10+ rounders.

This is not legal advice, just my amateur interpretation. This is all brand new.

Jack

23. "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt,
22 drum, feed strip, or similar device, that (A) has a capacity of, or
24 that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten
25 rounds of ammunition, OR (B) CONTAINS MORE THAN SEVEN ROUNDS OF AMMUNI-
26 TION, OR (C) IS OBTAINED AFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE CHAPTER OF THE
27 LAWS OF TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN WHICH AMENDED THIS SUBDIVISION AND HAS A
28 CAPACITY OF, OR THAT CAN BE READILY RESTORED OR CONVERTED TO ACCEPT,
29 MORE THAN SEVEN ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION; provided, however, that such term
30 does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and
31 capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition OR A
32 FEEDING DEVICE THAT IS A CURIO OR RELIC. A FEEDING DEVICE THAT IS A
33 CURIO OR RELIC IS DEFINED AS A DEVICE THAT (I) WAS MANUFACTURED AT LEAST
34 FIFTY YEARS PRIOR TO THE CURRENT DATE, (II) IS ONLY CAPABLE OF BEING
35 USED EXCLUSIVELY IN A FIREARM, RIFLE, OR SHOTGUN THAT WAS MANUFACTURED
36 AT LEAST FIFTY YEARS PRIOR TO THE CURRENT DATE, BUT NOT INCLUDING REPLI-
37 CAS THEREOF, (III) IS POSSESSED BY AN INDIVIDUAL WHO IS NOT PROHIBITED
38 BY STATE OR FEDERAL LAW FROM POSSESSING A FIREARM AND (IV) IS REGISTERED
39 WITH THE DIVISION OF STATE POLICE PURSUANT TO SUBDIVISION SIXTEEN-A OF
40 SECTION 400.00 OF THIS CHAPTER, EXCEPT SUCH FEEDING DEVICES TRANSFERRED
41 INTO THE STATE MAY BE REGISTERED AT ANY TIME, PROVIDED THEY ARE REGIS-
42 TERED WITHIN THIRTY DAYS OF THEIR TRANSFER INTO THE STATE. NOTWITH-
43 STANDING PARAGRAPH (H) OF SUBDIVISION TWENTY-TWO OF THIS SECTION, SUCH
44 FEEDING DEVICES MAY BE TRANSFERRED PROVIDED THAT SUCH TRANSFER SHALL BE
45 SUBJECT TO THE PROVISIONS OF SECTION 400.03 OF THIS CHAPTER INCLUDING
46 THE CHECK REQUIRED TO BE CONDUCTED PURSUANT TO SUCH SECTION.

[Jack Lawman]

Originally Posted by mrerick

The New York law (a draconian assault on 2nd Amendment rights) was passed and signed today.

Most Luger magazines can still be owned, just not loaded with more than 7 cartridges:

New York's law, called the Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act:

• Bans possession of any high-capacity magazines regardless of when they were made or sold. Only clips able to hold up to seven rounds can be sold in the state. Clips able to hold seven to 10 rounds can be possessed, but cannot be loaded with more than seven rounds. If an owner is found to have eight or more bullets in a magazine, he or she could face a misdemeanor charge.

If you have a trommel magazine, it's banned. You can no longer legally own it in New York.

Marc

Here is the new definition of a "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" (Penal law section 265.00(23)). Note section B:

21 23. "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt,
22 drum, feed strip, or similar device, that (A) has a capacity of, or
24 that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten
25 rounds of ammunition, OR (B) CONTAINS MORE THAN SEVEN ROUNDS OF AMMUNI-
26 TION, OR (C) IS OBTAINED AFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE CHAPTER OF THE
27 LAWS OF TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN WHICH AMENDED THIS SUBDIVISION AND HAS A
28 CAPACITY OF, OR THAT CAN BE READILY RESTORED OR CONVERTED TO ACCEPT,
29 MORE THAN SEVEN ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION;

Under S 265.02 "Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree":
(8) Such person possesses a large capacity ammunition feeding device.
Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree is a class D felony.

Unless they amended the section further (I don't see it), that one extra round makes you a FELON.

Did I mention this whole thing is madness?

Jack

[mrerick]

I guess the objectives are met:

- Politicians "do something" and exercise their power and control
- Establish and fund a massive new government bureaucracy
- Destroy a previously legal marketplace, creating opportunity for criminal profits
- Only impact law abiding citizens while (at the same time) having no impact on violent crime

What's next - cars that can go more than 50mph? Those are so much more dangerous.

Marc

[Steve Lempitski]

I dont even see a caliber exemption? So apparently this applies to .22 rimfire as well? Ruger pulled all their MK3 and 22/45 handguns out of MA 6 months ago as they are no longer MA compliant. When I emailed, I was called by a Ruger Rep 2 days later who told me they are in the process of redesigning them so they have to be resubmitted for all MA drop tests, etc. I wonder if the new version will include only a 7 round mag. Also what about .22 Revolvers holding 8,9, or 10 rounds?

[saab-bob]

Jack
Where exceptions made for security personal and first responders for this 7 round magazine limit? I can't think of many modern carry pistols that hold only 7 rounds? Will all the police departments in NY have to go back to revolvers?
Bob

[Jack Lawman]

Originally Posted by saab-bob

Jack
Where exceptions made for security personal and first responders for this 7 round magazine limit? I can't think of many modern carry pistols that hold only 7 rounds? Will all the police departments in NY have to go back to revolvers?
Bob

Those you mention are given a blanket exemption from all the offending sections. They are not granted permission to carry hi-caps, they are simply not prohibited from it:

S 265.20 Exemptions.
a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11, 265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to:
1. Possession of any of the weapons, instruments, appliances or substances specified in sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05 and 270.05 by the following:
(a) Persons in the military service of the state of New York when duly authorized by regulations issued by the adjutant general to possess the same.
(b) Police officers as defined in subdivision thirty-four of section 1.20 of the criminal procedure law.
(c) Peace officers as defined by section 2.10 of the criminal procedure law.
(d) Persons in the military or other service of the United States, in pursuit of official duty or when duly authorized by federal law, regulation or order to possess the same.
(e) Persons employed in fulfilling defense contracts with the government of the United States or agencies thereof when possession of the same is necessary for manufacture, transport, installation and testing under the requirements of such contract.

[tomaustin]

only load 7.........

[Jim Mac]

How can the govt take something away from people without compensation? Even eminent domain they have to pay fair market value for the taken property. jim

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Jim Mac

How can the govt take something away from people without compensation? Even eminent domain they have to pay fair market value for the taken property. jim

Good point. How much did the Nazis pay for each confiscated weapon? (The other Nazis).

[mrerick]

The entire bill text is at:

http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S2230-2013

It seems to exempt C&R firearms and ammunition feeding devices as long as they are registered...

Marc

[Olle]

Originally Posted by mrerick

I guess the objectives are met:

- Politicians "do something" and exercise their power and control
- Establish and fund a massive new government bureaucracy
- Destroy a previously legal marketplace, creating opportunity for criminal profits
- Only impact law abiding citizens while (at the same time) having no impact on violent crime

What's next - cars that can go more than 50mph? Those are so much more dangerous.

Marc

Sounds very much like how the prohibition turned out. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.