Can anyone tell me more about this flash hider and takedown tool?

318is_Parabellum · 12-05-2013, 06:16 PM

Came by these separately. The tool is a repro, isn't it?

As for the --so called-- "flash hider", I *don't* know what it is. Rarity? Value? Military or police issue? Production date? What does the s/n mean? When were these typically used?

Edward Tinker · 12-05-2013, 06:27 PM

Not a flash hider, it is either a 22/4mm adaptor for a Luger or it's also a cleaning guide. Worth $50 to $125 depending on age and how it's marked.

318is_Parabellum · 12-05-2013, 06:32 PM

Interesting. I could have sworn I saw this exact device touted by Simpson's as a "flash hider". The one pictured on their website I recall was marked to match a police luger, if I recall correctly???

klaus 3338 · 12-06-2013, 03:45 AM

The tool was made in East Germany in the 1950th by the Ernst Tählmann Werke (Ernst Tählmann factory).
The muzzle protector was also used with the conversion unit by the police in caliber 4mm central fire. The number on it may be the number of the Luger (either the Luger serial number or the Police number on the frame) with which the conversion unit was used. My English is not good enough to say all but some members will do.

John Sabato · 12-06-2013, 10:24 AM

Use it as a Flash hider for a 9mm and you will have a VERY unpleasant experience since the hole through it is MUCH smaller than 9mm. Let's be careful out there...

Ron Wood · 12-06-2013, 12:00 PM

Only partially correct John. The OD of the 4mm adaptor that goes with this muzzle device is 9mm, so the hole is large enough. But without the insert adaptor the alignment is not precise so you are correct that firing a 9mm round through it would most likely be a very unpleasant experience.

At any rate, calling this device a flash hider is ridiculous but Simpson's isn't the only party guilty of this misnomer.

klaus 3338 · 12-07-2013, 03:24 AM

Found that in the "Ministerial- Blatt für die Preußische innere Verwaltung" with date of 23. Mai 1928: ....the hole of the muzzle protractor is to be enlarging to 9,07mm. Reason was that the muzzle protector as a part for cleaning the barrel molded the cleaning material on the cleaning rod. That was not helpful to clean the barrel.
Interesting is that only the muzzle protectors (as can be seen on the added pic) were enlarged. The Erma was not. That would mean that the Erma "muzzle protectors" were never used as it but were only used with the 4mm barrels.
The rifling of the Gomann barrels is different to the Erma barrels.

12-05-2013, 06:16 PM	#1
318is_Parabellum User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 130 Thanks: 80 Thanked 75 Times in 31 Posts	Can anyone tell me more about this flash hider and takedown tool? Came by these separately. The tool is a repro, isn't it? As for the --so called-- "flash hider", I don't know what it is. Rarity? Value? Military or police issue? Production date? What does the s/n mean? When were these typically used? Last edited by 318is_Parabellum; 12-06-2013 at 02:21 PM. Reason: reflect reality, not perpetuate disinformation...

12-05-2013, 06:27 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Not a flash hider, it is either a 22/4mm adaptor for a Luger or it's also a cleaning guide. Worth $50 to $125 depending on age and how it's marked. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-05-2013, 06:32 PM	#3
318is_Parabellum User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 130 Thanks: 80 Thanked 75 Times in 31 Posts	Interesting. I could have sworn I saw this exact device touted by Simpson's as a "flash hider". The one pictured on their website I recall was marked to match a police luger, if I recall correctly??? Last edited by 318is_Parabellum; 12-05-2013 at 06:35 PM. Reason: clarification

12-06-2013, 03:45 AM	#4
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 513 Thanks: 0 Thanked 394 Times in 156 Posts	The tool was made in East Germany in the 1950th by the Ernst Tählmann Werke (Ernst Tählmann factory). The muzzle protector was also used with the conversion unit by the police in caliber 4mm central fire. The number on it may be the number of the Luger (either the Luger serial number or the Police number on the frame) with which the conversion unit was used. My English is not good enough to say all but some members will do. Attached Thumbnails

12-06-2013, 10:24 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Use it as a Flash hider for a 9mm and you will have a VERY unpleasant experience since the hole through it is MUCH smaller than 9mm. Let's be careful out there... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-06-2013, 12:00 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Only partially correct John. The OD of the 4mm adaptor that goes with this muzzle device is 9mm, so the hole is large enough. But without the insert adaptor the alignment is not precise so you are correct that firing a 9mm round through it would most likely be a very unpleasant experience. At any rate, calling this device a flash hider is ridiculous but Simpson's isn't the only party guilty of this misnomer. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-07-2013, 03:24 AM	#7
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 513 Thanks: 0 Thanked 394 Times in 156 Posts	Found that in the "Ministerial- Blatt für die Preußische innere Verwaltung" with date of 23. Mai 1928: ....the hole of the muzzle protractor is to be enlarging to 9,07mm. Reason was that the muzzle protector as a part for cleaning the barrel molded the cleaning material on the cleaning rod. That was not helpful to clean the barrel. Interesting is that only the muzzle protectors (as can be seen on the added pic) were enlarged. The Erma was not. That would mean that the Erma "muzzle protectors" were never used as it but were only used with the 4mm barrels. The rifling of the Gomann barrels is different to the Erma barrels. Attached Thumbnails