New Luger Owner Possibly a "SNEAK"...

[Lugerdoc]

H.Kaiser et al, As you can see above, not all luger collectors &/or references agree. Since the early 1970s when the first luger reference books were published (I still recommend Kenyon's "Lugers at Random" @ around $50 or available at many public libraries, as a good place to start) many newer luger references have been published, with additional information. TH

[DonVoigt]

Tom is correct, in fact we can't agree on what book to start with.
Though the first luger books were way better than no references, they just did not get it all correct- which of course is to be expected- as we still learn every month, if not every day.

Lugers at Random was published in 1969 and while does have some good, basic info; it is also full of errors ; I would not waste my money on it today(I have owned my copy for decades). The problem is you don't know what is correct and what is erroneous! JMHO.

Kenyon identifies your DWM/BKIW produced U suffix luger as an "unmarked Simson rework", which it is not.

If you diligently search this forum and the other luger forum, you will have more, and better info- plus the opportunity to ask questions of many of the guys who actually wrote the later luger reference books.

Searching and reading for yourself is a requirement, as when one starts into any new area- we don't even know what questions to ask.

Don't trust much what is found online and in Wikipedia!

[Don M]

I agree the pistol was originally manufactured in 1927-8 for the Rif Contract, undelivered to them, and subsequently issued to the Schutzpolizei in about 1929. The lack of a sear or mag safety indicates it was issued to a barracked Bereitshaftspolizei unit that was subsequently transferred to the military in 1934-5. The police property marking was probably scrubbed at that point.

As stated by others, there are a number of threads which discuss the "Rif" or "sneak" pistols. I suggest you read http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...TE-1920s/page7, especially post # 68.

[DedHed]

Thanks for all the replies! I have more questions now. Before I bought it I have never held a Luger let alone squeezed rounds off in one. So today was the day. I put 10 rounds threw her. My question is, how heavy or LIGHT is the trigger supposed to be. There is no wall at all. I'm a 1911 guy and have felt some light triggers but nothing like this one! I feel like you could blow on the trigger and she'll let one go. What is normal for a tigger pull?

The second thing is after I shot her I cleaned her up. When I removed the grip panels, there are P,L, and G stamped under the left side in the steel, and what looks like a D under the right side top edge near the back strap. Are these the machinists marks?

Finally, the pin Don and Luger Doc are talking about I believe is still intact. It was a bad pic due to the lighting, but the pin is recessed a little. Is it right?

[Karl]

Shannan,

Luger trigger pull is normally what I would call moderate and should not be THAT light. There is normally an initial light pull before the trigger engages the sear bar, then more force is required to fire the gun. Check for a weak/broken/missing trigger return spring or perhaps a worn/mis-fitted sear bar/striker, or perhaps dirt in sear bar.

Step one: completely disassemble and clean the gun. Examine the parts. Is the return spring present and intact? Is there any evidence of alterations to the sear bar or striker (file marks, peening)?

Added note: A trigger return spring is not visible in your photos and the striker is not matched to the gun.

KFS

[HerrKaiser]

As for your trigger question, I don’t know if there is a set answer since each gun is handfit down to the sideplate and trigger assemblies . My shooter grade Luger has easily the ugliest/worst trigger pull out of all the firearms I own, my more collectible one is not far behind it. Though I won’t ever shoot it again to preserve it. For my shooter pistol, it feels like I’m pulling the trigger against mud and still have a difficult time finding where the takeup ends and you hit the point of firing. Despite spending countless hours at home with snap caps and on the range trying to figure it out. However, on here I seem to read a lot of comments more similar to yours.

[DavidJayUden]

One thing that Lugers are not known for is an extremely light trigger. I would UNLOAD it and with the toggle cocked, try to make it click without pulling the trigger. Bump it, wiggle the trigger side to side, snap the toggle shut, etc.
That does not sound safe and I'd not shoot it again until it was deemed safe to fire.
dju

[DonVoigt]

A trigger pull as light as you describe is not normal, and likely not really safe.
Contact surfaces may be worn, or someone may have given it a "trigger job". Either way it needs attention.

The markings on the frame are workers marks.

Your pin is there, as long as it holds the toggle pin in it is ok.

[rhuff]

I have one Luger that did indeed have a very light trigger pull. It was so light that it would "double"/bumpfire. This made me more than a bit uncomfortable, to say the least. It appeared that "Bubba" had shortened the trigger return spring to give it a "trigger job".

I put in a new, correct trigger return spring and the problem was solved. None of my Lugers have light/match trigger pulls......actually, quite the opposite.

[4 Scale]

There has been some excellent advice on the trigger. Some things to try: study the various Luger animations and dis-assembly videos on YouTube and understand how all the parts work together. With the upper off the frame, upper can be cocked and the firing pin released by pressing on the front of the sear bar. This is helpful in isolating issues. I suggest snap caps to prevent damage to the firing pin from dry-firing. The side plate can be attached to the frame with the upper left off to allow operation/inspection of all trigger parts in the frame. Good luck, have fun and let us know what you found.

[Patrick Sweeney]

Whoever struck the W2A66 mark surely had his Wheaties (or teutonic equivalent) that morning.

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by Karl

Shannan,

Luger trigger pull is normally what I would call moderate and should not be THAT light. There is normally an initial light pull before the trigger engages the sear bar, then more force is required to fire the gun. Check for a weak/broken/missing trigger return spring or perhaps a worn/mis-fitted sear bar/striker, or perhaps dirt in sear bar.

Step one: completely disassemble and clean the gun. Examine the parts. Is the return spring present and intact? Is there any evidence of alterations to the sear bar or striker (file marks, peening)?

Added note: A trigger return spring is not visible in your photos and the striker is not matched to the gun.

KFS

New glasses are in order Karl. I can see the trigger return spring in at least two of the photos.

[DedHed]

Well I bought some 9mm snap caps. I then re-arched the trigger bar spring a little, cleaned, and lubed everything. Then double checked everything, but it is still light as all get out. I will have to order a new trigger spring and check that out. I have a decent understanding of how everything works and why. My question is though what sets your trigger pull weight? The trigger spring, the trigger lever, and/or the trigger lever pushing on the trigger bar? Or a combination of it all? If it’s a combo, what has the most to do with it in the chain of events? I have tried shaking and pounding to try to get it to fire, but it’s not like a Sig and wants to release a round thankfully. Also there is no evidence of filing on the trigger bar just normal wear. Thanks Again!

[DonVoigt]

A combination of course.
But the springs won't fix your problem, IMO.
You quite likely have an "engagement" issue, either angles or amount .

It will likely take a new striker and/or sear bar to get back to "normal" luger trigger weight.

[4 Scale]

If you 'fire' just the upper by pressing on the sear bar, is it still too light? If so you've isolated the issue to the firing pin/sear connection. Assuming that is the case I would carefully inspect both the firing pin and sear and probably try a different firing pin. I have at least one Luger that while matching, requires a non-matching replacement part to function correctly.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

If you 'fire' just the upper by pressing on the sear bar, is it still too light? If so you've isolated the issue to the firing pin/sear connection. Assuming that is the case I would carefully inspect both the firing pin and sear and probably try a different firing pin. I have at least one Luger that while matching, requires a non-matching replacement part to function correctly.

I think 4 scale means "dry fire"! Live fire would be hard to hold.

[Don M]

Originally Posted by Patrick Sweeney

Whoever struck the W2A66 mark surely had his Wheaties (or teutonic equivalent) that morning.

The stamp is actually WaA66 for Waffen-Amt inspector 66.

[4 Scale]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I think 4 scale means "dry fire"! Live fire would be hard to hold.

Yes, thanks. I would hate to be responsible for the demise of a fellow collector

[DedHed]

Well everyone I believe I found the issue. If you look at the pics you can see the right side of the trigger pivot pin is bent slightly. I purchased another that looks like it hasn't been tampered with, or bent. Trigger pull increased significantly. I understand what everyone says that there is no clean or crisp "wall." Every pull seems to break at different points.
Thanks Again!

[DonVoigt]

Thanks for posting the rest of the story.
Glad you found the problem.