Norinco Luger

SIGP2101 · 11-25-2010, 02:13 PM

Just for your eyes, does anyone own this?

suum cuique · 11-25-2010, 02:18 PM

Are they still around? How much are they worth? How many were made, how many imported?

Edward Tinker · 11-25-2010, 02:29 PM

Aren't these the metal models that almost seem real?

Otherwise, if Norinco made / makes lugers, I haven't heard of it?

Ed

Ron Wood · 11-25-2010, 02:36 PM

I think the photo is a doctored artists concept. I think there was a move afoot by Norinco to make a Luger largely from investment castings but I don't know its status or if it even got started.

sheepherder · 11-25-2010, 03:17 PM

The grips look terrible...

lugerholsterrepair · 11-25-2010, 03:33 PM

IF Norinco ever were to make a Luger pistol it had better be in .45 or cost $300.00 because there would be few buyers otherwise IMO. I owned a Norinco 1911 A1 once and everytime I took it to the range some part would break and fall off.
I was not impressed with the quality of it.

Jerry Burney

Vlim · 11-25-2010, 03:35 PM

Hi,

It is real. One was made as a prototype, we discuss it in our book 'The Parabellum Is Back! 1945-2000'. And it is currently in a forum member's collection. I had a chance to handle, study and photograph it a couple of months ago.

(and yes, it looks awful, but it actually works

)

SIGP2101 · 11-25-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suum cuique

Are they still around? How much are they worth?

Here:

http://www.hermann-historica.de/aukt...db=kat59_s.txt

And here is Hi resolution where it is obvious how crudely it was made. Just enlarge the front sight.

http://www.hermann-historica.de/aukt..._max/96743.jpg

Edward Tinker · 11-25-2010, 04:20 PM

Joe, I am just curious, if you knew this information at the begining, why didn't you share it?

Rather than folks guessing at what you were looking for?

Ed

Vlim · 11-25-2010, 04:38 PM

The Hermann Historica pictures don't do it justice, they are very, very light.

The pistol itself is a normal dark blue finish with almost golden like discoloration of the hardened toggle parts.

antonio_liviero · 11-25-2010, 04:50 PM

It's ugly !
Not only the grips look terrible, as Postino said, they seem to me to be made by plastic.
Also the knobs look stamped and welded to the toggle.
And scratches all over the gun.
And look to the trigger...... and so on.
With $ 800 one can buy a good shooter, I don't think this Norinco will be a collectible in any future.
But these are only my thoughts.
Best regards
Antonio

Vlim · 11-25-2010, 05:00 PM

The grips are wood and the checkering is indeed more like scratching than anything else. As a testament to the history of the luger pistol, and the fact that only one has been made, I'm pretty sure it is and will be a collectible right now

antonio_liviero · 11-25-2010, 05:10 PM

I didn't understand that only one has been made.
But I'm sorry, I still have my opinion that it has nothing to do with Lugers and I would not spend 1$ on it.
If the actual or the next owner will be happy with this gun, better for them!
Again, it's only my opinion.
Best regards
Antonio

SIGP2101 · 11-25-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Joe, I am just curious, if you knew this information at the begining, why didn't you share it?

Rather than folks guessing at what you were looking for?

Ed

If you asking me???

I didn't know they exist. I am posting information as I am digging dipper, and discovering more myself.

nukem556 · 11-28-2010, 09:59 PM

Maybe off-topic and a philosophical point? The workmanship on this is horrible, worse than in the 1950's from Japan, before they got their quality ducks in a row. I have a repro Winchester M52 made in Miroku, Japan in 1994 that rivals the orginal in quality....these days, the Chinese are becoming the dominant economic power in the world, turning out absolute crap....think of anything you've seen made by them thats not substandard...price is all that matters thses days, everything's disposable.

Vlim · 11-29-2010, 02:31 PM

About the workmanship:

Don't forget that this is, in essence, a prototype annex feasibility study. It is not meant to look pretty, it is meant to be produceable at a reasonable cost price and be functional as well. Minor issues like finishing and checkering can easily be addressed when series production starts. Unlike other copies, at least it feels solid and it works.

We can probably write entire shelves of books on the development of the Chinese economy, but I feel that at least Norinco deserves some credit for giving this a try.

Wilhelm · 11-29-2010, 02:55 PM

Both of my Norinco AK's are ugly too....but they are 100% reliable and shoot like champs. One of them has over 10,000 rounds through it with zero jams. In fact, no Norinco firearm I've ever owned has given me the slightest bit of trouble. The same can be said of my Norinco NDM-86 (SVD). That thing can hit a man at 1000 yards but sure is ugly. Exterior metal finishing is crude in the extreme but on the inside it's a thing of beauty. You gotta' remember that Norinco is in the business of making firearms that work. They polish and fit parts only where necessary. And when they do, their work is as good as you are going to get. How pretty it is is either low priority or no priority. I have never seen a Norinco product that was not top notch quality. You can't jugde a book by its cover. Also, ther is no "Norinco" per se. That is a name used to market products made by MANY state run military factories throughout China. All of them build for the military and as such have very high quality standards when it comes to durability and function. I don't think the Chinese made this Luger to collect. I think they made it for a mass market audience as an inexpensive way to enjoy shooting a Luger without paying the high price of an original or the worry of it breaking. I'd take a Norinco anything any day of the week!

lugerholsterrepair · 11-29-2010, 03:08 PM

Gerben I feel that at least Norinco deserves some credit for giving this a try. Absolutely! It is amazing to me that they managed to make one that looks this good and only one?

Gerben, you say it works..Has anyone you know shot it? Would enjoy hearing a report of that!

Jerry Burney

Vlim · 11-29-2010, 05:30 PM

Jerry,

The gun smith who handled the import after the HH sale test fired it a couple of times in his work shop. Sadly no 'range report' on accuracy.

lugerholsterrepair · 11-29-2010, 06:06 PM

Sadly no 'range report' on accuracy.

Gerben, Yes..too bad.

I am amazed that only the one pistol has surfaced. With any prototype attempt usually more than one is involved. Interesting stuff...
Jerry Burney

11-25-2010, 02:13 PM	#1
SIGP2101 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 256 Thanks: 74 Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts	Norinco Luger Just for your eyes, does anyone own this? Attached Thumbnails

11-25-2010, 02:18 PM	#2
suum cuique User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: MD / Currently about 9000 klicks east of the Potomac Posts: 497 Thanks: 100 Thanked 47 Times in 35 Posts	Are they still around? How much are they worth? How many were made, how many imported? __________________ Regards, Andy There's No Place Like Home (Wizard Of Oz)

11-25-2010, 02:36 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	I think the photo is a doctored artists concept. I think there was a move afoot by Norinco to make a Luger largely from investment castings but I don't know its status or if it even got started. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-25-2010, 03:17 PM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	The grips look terrible... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

11-25-2010, 03:33 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	IF Norinco ever were to make a Luger pistol it had better be in .45 or cost $300.00 because there would be few buyers otherwise IMO. I owned a Norinco 1911 A1 once and everytime I took it to the range some part would break and fall off. I was not impressed with the quality of it. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-25-2010, 02:29 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	Aren't these the metal models that almost seem real? Otherwise, if Norinco made / makes lugers, I haven't heard of it? Ed

11-25-2010, 03:35 PM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, It is real. One was made as a prototype, we discuss it in our book 'The Parabellum Is Back! 1945-2000'. And it is currently in a forum member's collection. I had a chance to handle, study and photograph it a couple of months ago. (and yes, it looks awful, but it actually works ) Attached Thumbnails

11-25-2010, 04:20 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	Joe, I am just curious, if you knew this information at the begining, why didn't you share it? Rather than folks guessing at what you were looking for? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-25-2010, 04:38 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	The Hermann Historica pictures don't do it justice, they are very, very light. The pistol itself is a normal dark blue finish with almost golden like discoloration of the hardened toggle parts. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

11-25-2010, 04:50 PM	#11
antonio_liviero User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Italy Posts: 43 Thanks: 8 Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts	It's ugly ! Not only the grips look terrible, as Postino said, they seem to me to be made by plastic. Also the knobs look stamped and welded to the toggle. And scratches all over the gun. And look to the trigger...... and so on. With $ 800 one can buy a good shooter, I don't think this Norinco will be a collectible in any future. But these are only my thoughts. Best regards Antonio

11-25-2010, 05:00 PM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	The grips are wood and the checkering is indeed more like scratching than anything else. As a testament to the history of the luger pistol, and the fact that only one has been made, I'm pretty sure it is and will be a collectible right now

11-25-2010, 05:10 PM	#13
antonio_liviero User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Italy Posts: 43 Thanks: 8 Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts	I didn't understand that only one has been made. But I'm sorry, I still have my opinion that it has nothing to do with Lugers and I would not spend 1$ on it. If the actual or the next owner will be happy with this gun, better for them! Again, it's only my opinion. Best regards Antonio

11-28-2010, 09:59 PM	#15
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Maybe off-topic and a philosophical point? The workmanship on this is horrible, worse than in the 1950's from Japan, before they got their quality ducks in a row. I have a repro Winchester M52 made in Miroku, Japan in 1994 that rivals the orginal in quality....these days, the Chinese are becoming the dominant economic power in the world, turning out absolute crap....think of anything you've seen made by them thats not substandard...price is all that matters thses days, everything's disposable.

11-29-2010, 02:31 PM	#16
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	About the workmanship: Don't forget that this is, in essence, a prototype annex feasibility study. It is not meant to look pretty, it is meant to be produceable at a reasonable cost price and be functional as well. Minor issues like finishing and checkering can easily be addressed when series production starts. Unlike other copies, at least it feels solid and it works. We can probably write entire shelves of books on the development of the Chinese economy, but I feel that at least Norinco deserves some credit for giving this a try.

11-29-2010, 02:55 PM	#17
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 358 Thanks: 45 Thanked 125 Times in 59 Posts	Both of my Norinco AK's are ugly too....but they are 100% reliable and shoot like champs. One of them has over 10,000 rounds through it with zero jams. In fact, no Norinco firearm I've ever owned has given me the slightest bit of trouble. The same can be said of my Norinco NDM-86 (SVD). That thing can hit a man at 1000 yards but sure is ugly. Exterior metal finishing is crude in the extreme but on the inside it's a thing of beauty. You gotta' remember that Norinco is in the business of making firearms that work. They polish and fit parts only where necessary. And when they do, their work is as good as you are going to get. How pretty it is is either low priority or no priority. I have never seen a Norinco product that was not top notch quality. You can't jugde a book by its cover. Also, ther is no "Norinco" per se. That is a name used to market products made by MANY state run military factories throughout China. All of them build for the military and as such have very high quality standards when it comes to durability and function. I don't think the Chinese made this Luger to collect. I think they made it for a mass market audience as an inexpensive way to enjoy shooting a Luger without paying the high price of an original or the worry of it breaking. I'd take a Norinco anything any day of the week! __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

11-29-2010, 03:08 PM	#18
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Gerben I feel that at least Norinco deserves some credit for giving this a try. Absolutely! It is amazing to me that they managed to make one that looks this good and only one? Gerben, you say it works..Has anyone you know shot it? Would enjoy hearing a report of that! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-29-2010, 05:30 PM	#19
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Jerry, The gun smith who handled the import after the HH sale test fired it a couple of times in his work shop. Sadly no 'range report' on accuracy.

11-29-2010, 06:06 PM	#20
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Sadly no 'range report' on accuracy. Gerben, Yes..too bad. I am amazed that only the one pistol has surfaced. With any prototype attempt usually more than one is involved. Interesting stuff... Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."