Controversial Russian and Bulgarian

Edward Tinker · 01-13-2017, 12:05 PM

A friend and I were talking, how many folks own a Russian or Bulgarian luger?

all answers are completely confidential.

DonVoigt · 01-13-2017, 12:13 PM

What if one has two?
Should you distinguish between the 1906 or 1908?

John Sabato · 01-13-2017, 12:46 PM

There is no option for "none of the above" either...

Edward Tinker · 01-13-2017, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

There is no option for "none of the above" either...

I assumed that folks did not answer would have none of the above

added 1906 and 1908 option

spacecoast · 01-13-2017, 02:46 PM

What about us 1900 owners????

Three guns here... a total of four serial numbers represented.

If you own or have owned or know of a Bulgarian, please take a look at these lists and make sure your gun is represented. If not, please get in touch with me!

1900 - http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...8-found-so-far

1906 - http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...5-found-so-far

1908 - http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...s-and-counting

Likewise, if you own or have knowledge of a "Russian" (Crossed Rifles) 1906 Luger, please check this post and make sure your gun's serial number is listed.

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...356#post303356

spacecoast · 01-14-2017, 08:21 PM

bump

SIGP2101 · 01-16-2017, 01:32 PM

What is controversy all about? Can some one provide short educational input to uneducated.

Thanks!

SIGP2101

spacecoast · 01-16-2017, 04:07 PM

In brief... there are questions as to whether the Lugers (mostly Model 1906s, there are a few 1900s as well) which are adorned with Crossed Rifles on the chamber were intended for a "Russian" contract or customers as identified by various authors and labeled as "Russian" years ago before many such guns were known. The Crossed Rifle markings are inconsistent and appear to be largely engraved rather than stamped. In the case of the 1906 "Russians", their safety markings and internal markings are identical to 1906 Bulgarian contract guns (although they are 9mm, not 7.65mm like the Bulgarians). They differ in the Cyrillic writing on the extractor. Some argue that both markings are Bulgarian and therefore they are all Bulgarian guns. Some (including Gortz and Sturgess) say they were manufactured in the same production run because so far, there are no overlaps in serials between the 1906 Crossed Rifle ("Russians") and 1906 Bulgarians.

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...356#post303356

It makes a difference because the "Russian" guns seem to carry a much higher premium in the marketplace than the equally rare (actually rarer) 1906 Bulgarians, and several fakes have been identified.

I hope this is a fair, although brief, treatment of the subject. There are lots of threads on this at luger.gunboards.com, some of which have been closed due to commentary that gets a little too personal.

sheepherder · 01-16-2017, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGP2101

What is controversy all about?

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacecoast

There are lots of threads on this at
http://luger.gunboards.com/, some of which have been closed due to commentary that gets a little too personal.

There's a fair amount of discussion here too. Do an Advanced Search for username 'Imperial Arms'.

Here's one -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=26929

Oh, here's a good one -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=22692

It takes a spirited discussion to uncover the truth...If you can handle the truth...

SIGP2101 · 01-18-2017, 05:22 PM

Thanks gentlemen!

View Poll Results: Have you owned a Russian or a Bulgarian?
Own or have owned what you believe is Russian	2	18.18%
Own or have owned a Bulgarian	4	36.36%
Still own a Russian	2	18.18%
Still own a bulgarian	6	54.55%
REAL Russian	1	9.09%
only a frame to a bulgarian	0	0%
Own 1908 Bulgarian	8	72.73%
own 1906 Bulgarian	3	27.27%
Own a 1900 Bulgarian	0	0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

01-13-2017, 12:05 PM	#1
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Controversial Russian and Bulgarian A friend and I were talking, how many folks own a Russian or Bulgarian luger? all answers are completely confidential.

01-13-2017, 12:13 PM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	What if one has two? Should you distinguish between the 1906 or 1908? __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

01-13-2017, 12:46 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	There is no option for "none of the above" either... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-13-2017, 02:46 PM	#5
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	What about us 1900 owners???? Three guns here... a total of four serial numbers represented. If you own or have owned or know of a Bulgarian, please take a look at these lists and make sure your gun is represented. If not, please get in touch with me! 1900 - http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...8-found-so-far 1906 - http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...5-found-so-far 1908 - http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...s-and-counting Likewise, if you own or have knowledge of a "Russian" (Crossed Rifles) 1906 Luger, please check this post and make sure your gun's serial number is listed. http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...356#post303356 __________________ My avatars are the Bulgarian word for "Fire", as seen on my 1900, 1906 and 1908 Bulgarian Contract DWM Lugers. Looking for a DWM Commercial side plate #95

01-14-2017, 08:21 PM	#6
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	bump __________________ My avatars are the Bulgarian word for "Fire", as seen on my 1900, 1906 and 1908 Bulgarian Contract DWM Lugers. Looking for a DWM Commercial side plate #95

01-16-2017, 01:32 PM	#7
SIGP2101 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 256 Thanks: 74 Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts	What is controversy all about? Can some one provide short educational input to uneducated. Thanks! SIGP2101

01-16-2017, 04:07 PM	#8
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	In brief... there are questions as to whether the Lugers (mostly Model 1906s, there are a few 1900s as well) which are adorned with Crossed Rifles on the chamber were intended for a "Russian" contract or customers as identified by various authors and labeled as "Russian" years ago before many such guns were known. The Crossed Rifle markings are inconsistent and appear to be largely engraved rather than stamped. In the case of the 1906 "Russians", their safety markings and internal markings are identical to 1906 Bulgarian contract guns (although they are 9mm, not 7.65mm like the Bulgarians). They differ in the Cyrillic writing on the extractor. Some argue that both markings are Bulgarian and therefore they are all Bulgarian guns. Some (including Gortz and Sturgess) say they were manufactured in the same production run because so far, there are no overlaps in serials between the 1906 Crossed Rifle ("Russians") and 1906 Bulgarians. http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...356#post303356 It makes a difference because the "Russian" guns seem to carry a much higher premium in the marketplace than the equally rare (actually rarer) 1906 Bulgarians, and several fakes have been identified. I hope this is a fair, although brief, treatment of the subject. There are lots of threads on this at luger.gunboards.com, some of which have been closed due to commentary that gets a little too personal. __________________ My avatars are the Bulgarian word for "Fire", as seen on my 1900, 1906 and 1908 Bulgarian Contract DWM Lugers. Looking for a DWM Commercial side plate #95 Last edited by spacecoast; 01-19-2017 at 10:38 AM.

01-18-2017, 05:22 PM	#10
SIGP2101 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 256 Thanks: 74 Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts	Thanks gentlemen!