Sometimes a blind pig...

Navy · 09-18-2003, 06:51 PM

Gents,
Lady luck was laughing outloud.
To wit: 1917 Navy, 95%+ condition. Now it gets better. First, it is a full rig with matching stock. Next there are three, count 'em, three matching mags. But wait there's more...it is all Kiel property marked...WK 17024. Jans book lists one example; my database lists only 4. And to cap it off, accompanying it are 1917 dated and proofed holster and similarly dated mag pouch. (Haven't found the proof mark yet, but I know it is there.)

The downsides are: no carrying strap and no Imperial Navy tool and the rod, although period navy, is not proofed.

Did a very abbreviated (I am on the road)version of my "forensics" exam, and first blush makes everything look very, very good. The ancient grease and crud in the side plate and on two of the mag followers was a real turn on.

Sometimes a blind pig manages to find an acorn!

Pictures when possible.

Tom A.

Roadkill · 09-18-2003, 06:59 PM

Blind pig finding an acorn? Tom, you can sniff out a Navy rig from twenty miles off. Do you have it with you? Congratulations.

rk

John D. · 09-18-2003, 07:44 PM

Tom,

Can you do me a favor?

Do not ever - and I mean NEVER.....

Start collecting Kriegs.....

CONGRATS!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

Edward Tinker · 09-18-2003, 07:48 PM

Tom, at least give us a bit of a story?

1. You had heard about this before you went south?

2. You visited a collector friend?

3. You went into a pawnshop in Roadkills home town?

4. You were at a yard sale and the late Mrs Klaus Von Dirtek said, hey, come on in and have some coffee...

Big Norm · 09-19-2003, 12:39 AM

TomA,
congrads! If its the gun that I saw on the internet, then I am glad for you that I was wrong in my worries about certain things. Nice going! I will be anxiously watching for some good pictures of your new treasure.
Big Norm

Navy · 09-19-2003, 12:46 AM

All,

Some kind soul pointed this piece out on the forum; I merely pushed the issue to determine what was really FS. I was extremely pleased at the answers I received.

Suffice it to say, I am *very* pleased with this acquisition.

For John D: I send you a good bottle of barrel squeezin's and you want to disenfranchise me? I think I will concentrate on Kreighs for the forseeable future; after all, they have an anchor on them, that makes them fair game for a Navy guy, eh what?

Tom A.

Tom A.

John D. · 09-19-2003, 08:42 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Tom A:
For John D: I send you a good bottle of barrel squeezin's and ...<hr /></blockquote>And mighty fine squeezin's they are (err - "were??

) But to my point.. Nope, don't want to disuade from collecting Kriegs at all, rather - just note that with your ability to find things you really aren't searching for (heh, heh!!), your talents might be better spent focusing on really, really rare Lugers - maybe Test Lugers, or Fat Barrels, or.. Hmmmm. Who would want to collect HKs anyway? Far, far too many made in comparision to those nifty really rare ones...

Oh - about the anchor. Well - it's really just a dagger with a hook "thingy" at the bottom. I know it looks like a Navy thingy - but it's really not... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Big Norm · 09-19-2003, 02:06 PM

I think that that anchor thing-a-ma-jig is really an unside down umbrella. I don't think that the army would allow a navy anchor on an army gun.

Big Norm

Jimbo · 09-20-2003, 02:59 PM

Tom,

LOL! Kriegs are Navies cause they have an anchor. Coffee almost went out my nose on that one due to unexpected burst of laughter. Congratulations on another fine score.

Thor · 09-20-2003, 05:39 PM

Almost as rare as my SPANDAU Death head Navy Carbine!!!

Brandon · 09-21-2003, 08:57 AM

Thor,
I hate to break it to you, but I just purchased the only known Spandau Death Head Navy Carbine in .45 Cal!

Got it for a song!

Best Regards, Brandon...

Edward Tinker · 09-21-2003, 02:25 PM

Brandon, is that from that pair of Spandau carbines that I sold for $150 and you parted one out for the internal pins and tossed the rest?

Ed

Brandon · 09-21-2003, 10:32 PM

Hey Ed,
Yep thats where it came from!

Regards, Brandon

P.S. Just keep moving east and you'll get here sooner or later! Congrats on the new job!

Edward Tinker · 09-22-2003, 01:15 AM

So, kidding aside, take a look at Tom's new Navy!!

<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags001.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags001.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags023.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags023.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags018.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags018.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags014.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags014.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags013.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags013.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags011.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags011.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags010.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags010.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Edward Tinker · 09-22-2003, 01:15 AM

and a few more!

Tom, outstanding pictures, you did very well on this one, if anyone wants the full size, i.e. 800 kb pictures, e-mail me off line, one or two, not all nine,

Ed

<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags006.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags006.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags005.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags005.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags004.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags004.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Frank H · 09-22-2003, 08:31 AM

Tom-That's a sweet find! You sound just like a NEW father! Thanks for the photo's! Enjoy!
Dr. Frank

Navy · 09-22-2003, 08:42 AM

All,
One of the really neat things about this piece (and the New Nikon I bought to photograph it) is that it very clearly illustrates some of the points I have mentioned in my descriptions of my "forensics" (I hate that term but don't have a better one)approach to evaluating and authenticating a piece.
The crud in the magazine (See pics above, the haloing around the property mark and the effects of oxidation on the SN are very clear on this piece. These are the things that separate the real McCoy from the boosted guns, and I am pleased to have an example that works so well as a source of teaching points. The fact that it happens to be an extremely rare gun in great shape makes it that much better.

Tom A.

Brandon · 09-22-2003, 09:08 AM

WOW, Tom!

That is SOME rig, and with THREE matching mags, that is outstanding!

Congratulations... <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Best Regards, Brandon

Big Norm · 09-22-2003, 11:33 PM

Tom,
WOW! Is that holster really as good as it looks. I have some nice guns but I would feel real nervous having something this good. Even the stock matches. Double congrats!! You are really upping the bar for perfection.
Big Norm

09-18-2003, 06:51 PM	#1
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Sometimes a blind pig... Gents, Lady luck was laughing outloud. To wit: 1917 Navy, 95%+ condition. Now it gets better. First, it is a full rig with matching stock. Next there are three, count 'em, three matching mags. But wait there's more...it is all Kiel property marked...WK 17024. Jans book lists one example; my database lists only 4. And to cap it off, accompanying it are 1917 dated and proofed holster and similarly dated mag pouch. (Haven't found the proof mark yet, but I know it is there.) The downsides are: no carrying strap and no Imperial Navy tool and the rod, although period navy, is not proofed. Did a very abbreviated (I am on the road)version of my "forensics" exam, and first blush makes everything look very, very good. The ancient grease and crud in the side plate and on two of the mag followers was a real turn on. Sometimes a blind pig manages to find an acorn! Pictures when possible. Tom A.

09-18-2003, 07:48 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Tom, at least give us a bit of a story? 1. You had heard about this before you went south? 2. You visited a collector friend? 3. You went into a pawnshop in Roadkills home town? 4. You were at a yard sale and the late Mrs Klaus Von Dirtek said, hey, come on in and have some coffee... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-19-2003, 08:42 AM	#7
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Tom A: <strong>For John D: I send you a good bottle of barrel squeezin's and ...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">And mighty fine squeezin's they are (err - "were?? ) But to my point.. Nope, don't want to disuade from collecting Kriegs at all, rather - just note that with your ability to find things you really aren't searching for (heh, heh!!), your talents might be better spent focusing on really, really rare Lugers - maybe Test Lugers, or Fat Barrels, or.. Hmmmm. Who would want to collect HKs anyway? Far, far too many made in comparision to those nifty really rare ones... Oh - about the anchor. Well - it's really just a dagger with a hook "thingy" at the bottom. I know it looks like a Navy thingy - but it's really not... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

09-20-2003, 05:39 PM	#10
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Almost as rare as my SPANDAU Death head Navy Carbine!!! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

09-21-2003, 02:25 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Brandon, is that from that pair of Spandau carbines that I sold for $150 and you parted one out for the internal pins and tossed the rest? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-18-2003, 06:59 PM	#2
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Blind pig finding an acorn? Tom, you can sniff out a Navy rig from twenty miles off. Do you have it with you? Congratulations. rk

09-18-2003, 07:44 PM	#3
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	Tom, Can you do me a favor? Do not ever - and I mean NEVER..... Start collecting Kriegs..... CONGRATS!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

09-19-2003, 12:39 AM	#5
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	TomA, congrads! If its the gun that I saw on the internet, then I am glad for you that I was wrong in my worries about certain things. Nice going! I will be anxiously watching for some good pictures of your new treasure. Big Norm

09-19-2003, 12:46 AM	#6
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, Some kind soul pointed this piece out on the forum; I merely pushed the issue to determine what was really FS. I was extremely pleased at the answers I received. Suffice it to say, I am very pleased with this acquisition. For John D: I send you a good bottle of barrel squeezin's and you want to disenfranchise me? I think I will concentrate on Kreighs for the forseeable future; after all, they have an anchor on them, that makes them fair game for a Navy guy, eh what? Tom A. Tom A.

09-19-2003, 02:06 PM	#8
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I think that that anchor thing-a-ma-jig is really an unside down umbrella. I don't think that the army would allow a navy anchor on an army gun. Big Norm

09-20-2003, 02:59 PM	#9
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tom, LOL! Kriegs are Navies cause they have an anchor. Coffee almost went out my nose on that one due to unexpected burst of laughter. Congratulations on another fine score.

09-21-2003, 08:57 AM	#11
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thor, I hate to break it to you, but I just purchased the only known Spandau Death Head Navy Carbine in .45 Cal! Got it for a song! Best Regards, Brandon...

09-21-2003, 10:32 PM	#13
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey Ed, Yep thats where it came from! Regards, Brandon P.S. Just keep moving east and you'll get here sooner or later! Congrats on the new job!

09-22-2003, 01:15 AM	#14
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	So, kidding aside, take a look at Tom's new Navy!! <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags001.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags001.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags023.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags023.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags018.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags018.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags014.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags014.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags013.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags013.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags011.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags011.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags010.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/1917Kielw3Mags010.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-22-2003, 08:31 AM	#16
Frank H User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: N. FL Posts: 90 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tom-That's a sweet find! You sound just like a NEW father! Thanks for the photo's! Enjoy! Dr. Frank

09-22-2003, 08:42 AM	#17
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, One of the really neat things about this piece (and the New Nikon I bought to photograph it) is that it very clearly illustrates some of the points I have mentioned in my descriptions of my "forensics" (I hate that term but don't have a better one)approach to evaluating and authenticating a piece. The crud in the magazine (See pics above, the haloing around the property mark and the effects of oxidation on the SN are very clear on this piece. These are the things that separate the real McCoy from the boosted guns, and I am pleased to have an example that works so well as a source of teaching points. The fact that it happens to be an extremely rare gun in great shape makes it that much better. Tom A.

09-22-2003, 09:08 AM	#18
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	WOW, Tom! That is SOME rig, and with THREE matching mags, that is outstanding! Congratulations... <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> Best Regards, Brandon

09-22-2003, 11:33 PM	#19
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Tom, WOW! Is that holster really as good as it looks. I have some nice guns but I would feel real nervous having something this good. Even the stock matches. Double congrats!! You are really upping the bar for perfection. Big Norm