Whazzit? <img BORDER="0" src='http://forum.rennlist.com/luger/pic.gif'>

Ron Wood · 04-02-2002, 05:34 PM

I think I have a Weimar Police holster. I'm sorry the inset isn't clearer, I tried to punch it up a bit. It is a 4-lobed crown over the Roman numeral II. Can any of you holster experts confirm what it is? Is it very common?

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/WoodHolster.jpg

04-02-2002, 05:50 PM

Beautiful holster, by the way. The Crown over II is common and I see it often on late WW1 holsters dated 1918. Someone informally suggested it referred to some part of the German army such as Bavaria versus Saxony etc. but I have not seen a research reference to support a particular interpretation. Perhaps someone else knows exactly what it refers to.

John Sabato · 04-02-2002, 05:57 PM

Here is Ron's image slightly enhanced and enlarged compared to a negative image...

Is it possible that it is an "F" as opposed to a Roman number 2?

Whatyouguys think?

regards,

John Sabato

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/NegativestampII.jpg

John Sabato · 04-02-2002, 05:58 PM

Ron Wood · 04-02-2002, 06:10 PM

The marking is really very clear, just a lousy photo. It is definately II, the serifs on the II are joined. What appears to be the crossbar on an F is just a scratch. If you look a little closer and lower, you can see the rest of the scratch. I will experiment with the camera and try to get a better shot. It is a nice holster, but unfortunately the belt loops have been cut. The knife was sharp because they are clean cuts, but cuts none the less. I have heard that this was a common practice by GIs to remove the holster from the belt of a dead soldier. Anyone else hear of this?

Ron Wood · 04-02-2002, 06:46 PM

When I learn how to use this camera, I'll be dangerous!

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/CrownII.jpg

Ron Wood · 04-02-2002, 06:48 PM

When I learn how to use this camera, I'll be dangerous!

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/CrownII.jpg

Ron Wood · 04-02-2002, 06:53 PM

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/CrownII.jpg

Joe KY · 04-02-2002, 07:06 PM

Ron,

I have not heard that, but some of the re-enactment folks in the Ft. Knox area have told me a lot of GI's would cut the loops off and then punch holes in the holster so that it could be attached to their pistol belt. (using the wire hanger that is on the GI hip holster to actually attach it to the pistol belt)

Take care, Joe

Hugh · 04-02-2002, 07:12 PM

Ron,

I have a holster with a similar (although different)crown and Roman Numeral III underneath. This is the only stamp on the back. On the inside of the flap is stamped the makers name; Lieferungsgenossenschaft der Sattler, Nurnberg, 1918. Whew! I'm outa breath after typing that one!

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/crown.jpg

Hugh · 04-02-2002, 07:15 PM

Ron,

I have a holster with a similar (although different) crown with a Roman Numeral III underneath. This is the only stamp on the back. On the inside of the flap is stamped the makers name; Lieferungsgenossenschaft der Sattler, Nurnberg, 1918. Whew! I'm outa breath after typing that one!

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/crown.jpg

Hugh · 04-02-2002, 07:18 PM

Ron,

I have a holster with a similar (although different)crown with a Roman Numeral III underneath. This is the only stamp on the back. On the inside of the flap is stamped the makers name; Lieferungsgenossenschaft der Sattler, Nurnberg, 1918. Whew! I'm outa breath after typing that one!

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/crown.jpg

Hugh · 04-02-2002, 07:26 PM

Ron,

I have a holster with a similar (but different), crown with a Roman numeral III underneath it stamped on the back. On the inside of the flap is stamped: Lieferungsgenossenschaft der Sattler, Nurnberg, 1918. Whew! I'm outa breath after typing that one.

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/crown.jpg

Ron Wood · 04-02-2002, 07:52 PM

Here is a better picture of the marking on my holster. I tried to post this earlier but got an error message. Hope this one works!

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/CrownII.jpg

tom · 04-02-2002, 07:54 PM

The mark is a property mark indicating that the holster was originally purchased by the Bavarian Second Corps. Hope this helps,

Tom

Ron Wood · 04-02-2002, 08:06 PM

I barely had time to hit "Enter" when your response came up!

Lonnie Zimmerman · 04-02-2002, 10:47 PM

Hugh · 04-03-2002, 12:02 AM

Tom,

Does that mean that mine was purchased by the Bavarian third corps?

John Sabato · 04-03-2002, 09:40 AM

when you were in a "HURRY" because of intensity of the situation and didn't want to leave the Luger behind... WHen there was time, the operation was a little more delicate and resulted in a serviceable holster.

regards,

John Sabato

tom · 04-03-2002, 10:34 AM

IIID Bavarian Corps; FWIW, Nurenberg was in Bavaria then; later it was part of Franconia when Germany did away with the monarchies post 1918.

Tom

04-02-2002, 05:34 PM	#1
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Whazzit? I think I have a Weimar Police holster. I'm sorry the inset isn't clearer, I tried to punch it up a bit. It is a 4-lobed crown over the Roman numeral II. Can any of you holster experts confirm what it is? Is it very common? http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/WoodHolster.jpg

04-02-2002, 05:50 PM	#2
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Whazzit? Beautiful holster, by the way. The Crown over II is common and I see it often on late WW1 holsters dated 1918. Someone informally suggested it referred to some part of the German army such as Bavaria versus Saxony etc. but I have not seen a research reference to support a particular interpretation. Perhaps someone else knows exactly what it refers to.

04-02-2002, 05:57 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Could it be a Crown over "F" ??? Here is Ron's image slightly enhanced and enlarged compared to a negative image... Is it possible that it is an "F" as opposed to a Roman number 2? Whatyouguys think? regards, John Sabato http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/NegativestampII.jpg

04-02-2002, 05:58 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	P.S. - really Nice Holster Ron! (EOM)

04-02-2002, 06:10 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Nope The marking is really very clear, just a lousy photo. It is definately II, the serifs on the II are joined. What appears to be the crossbar on an F is just a scratch. If you look a little closer and lower, you can see the rest of the scratch. I will experiment with the camera and try to get a better shot. It is a nice holster, but unfortunately the belt loops have been cut. The knife was sharp because they are clean cuts, but cuts none the less. I have heard that this was a common practice by GIs to remove the holster from the belt of a dead soldier. Anyone else hear of this?

04-02-2002, 06:46 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Here ya go!!...better picture When I learn how to use this camera, I'll be dangerous! http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/CrownII.jpg

04-02-2002, 06:48 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Here ya go!!....better picture When I learn how to use this camera, I'll be dangerous! http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/CrownII.jpg

04-02-2002, 06:53 PM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Better picture!! (EOM) http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/CrownII.jpg

04-02-2002, 07:06 PM	#9
Joe KY User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Near the US Bullion Depository Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Nope Ron, I have not heard that, but some of the re-enactment folks in the Ft. Knox area have told me a lot of GI's would cut the loops off and then punch holes in the holster so that it could be attached to their pistol belt. (using the wire hanger that is on the GI hip holster to actually attach it to the pistol belt) Take care, Joe

04-02-2002, 07:12 PM	#10
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Re: Whazzit? Ron, I have a holster with a similar (although different)crown and Roman Numeral III underneath. This is the only stamp on the back. On the inside of the flap is stamped the makers name; Lieferungsgenossenschaft der Sattler, Nurnberg, 1918. Whew! I'm outa breath after typing that one! http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/crown.jpg

04-02-2002, 07:15 PM	#11
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Re: Whazzit? Ron, I have a holster with a similar (although different) crown with a Roman Numeral III underneath. This is the only stamp on the back. On the inside of the flap is stamped the makers name; Lieferungsgenossenschaft der Sattler, Nurnberg, 1918. Whew! I'm outa breath after typing that one! http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/crown.jpg

04-02-2002, 07:18 PM	#12
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Re: Whazzit? Ron, I have a holster with a similar (although different)crown with a Roman Numeral III underneath. This is the only stamp on the back. On the inside of the flap is stamped the makers name; Lieferungsgenossenschaft der Sattler, Nurnberg, 1918. Whew! I'm outa breath after typing that one! http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/crown.jpg

04-02-2002, 07:26 PM	#13
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Re: Whazzit? Ron, I have a holster with a similar (but different), crown with a Roman numeral III underneath it stamped on the back. On the inside of the flap is stamped: Lieferungsgenossenschaft der Sattler, Nurnberg, 1918. Whew! I'm outa breath after typing that one. http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/crown.jpg

04-02-2002, 07:52 PM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Re: Whazzit? Here is a better picture of the marking on my holster. I tried to post this earlier but got an error message. Hope this one works! http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/CrownII.jpg

04-02-2002, 07:54 PM	#15
tom User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 269 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Whazzit? The mark is a property mark indicating that the holster was originally purchased by the Bavarian Second Corps. Hope this helps, Tom

04-02-2002, 08:06 PM	#16
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Thanks! Swift response! I barely had time to hit "Enter" when your response came up!

04-02-2002, 10:47 PM	#17
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Late war Imperial, NICE! (EOM)

04-03-2002, 12:02 AM	#18
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Re: Whazzit? Tom, Does that mean that mine was purchased by the Bavarian third corps?

04-03-2002, 09:40 AM	#19
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	yes Ron, my Dad says that was pretty standard practice to cut loops when you were in a "HURRY" because of intensity of the situation and didn't want to leave the Luger behind... WHen there was time, the operation was a little more delicate and resulted in a serviceable holster. regards, John Sabato

04-03-2002, 10:34 AM	#20
tom User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 269 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Whazzit? IIID Bavarian Corps; FWIW, Nurenberg was in Bavaria then; later it was part of Franconia when Germany did away with the monarchies post 1918. Tom