Inherited 30 caliber Luger - Help with Markings and Origin

[kdcarver]

Several years ago I inherited a luger from my grandmother. She told me it was brought back from WWI by her uncle Don who served during that war. I've never shot the gun, but will get it serviced by a local professional gun shop in hopes of being able to take to the range on occasion.

I'd like some help with the meaning of the markings on the gun and holster to see if I can get some history about it's origins. If anyone can help, I'd appreciate it.

The gun has a holster that is in deteriorated shape. There is a stamp in the leather on the backside of the holster that reads: "149" in a box and "B.D. III 1915" another box.

On the pistol there are the following markings:

On the top of the slide action: "DWM" in a script font.
On the underside of the barrel: "2297" and either an "e" or "l" in script font.
On the body, under the barrel, in front of the trigger guard: "2297 GERMANY" and either an "e" or an "l" in script font.
On the left side of the body above and in front of the trigger: A crown and the letter "N".
On the back of the gun above the grip: "97"
On the bottom of the magazine: "GERMANY"

The barrel measures 75mm from muzzle to the body, 90mm from muzzle to the extractor opening.

The grip appears to be made of wood, and is "checkered". The magazine plug appears to be wood as well.

The caliber is .30 based on the cartridges that were in the magazine when I received the gun.

Any help in understanding the markings so I can have an idea of where the gun was manufactured, and when, would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Kirk

[mrerick]

Hi Kirk and welcome to the forum.

We have an expert on leather holster restoration on the forum that can probably help you with your holster. I'm not familiar with the marking... Watch for Jerry Burney on the forum.

Your Luger was a commercial rather than military Luger. It was manufactured for export from Germany to the United States in about 1923. The variation is commonly called a "DWM Alphabet Commercial" Luger. The Crown over N (C/N) symbol is a commercial Nitro proof mark.

The full serial number is "2297l" and the suffix letter is a "l" as in "lima" character.

I think that your Luger is in it's original rust blued finish, but someone has cleaned all the cream colored paint from the "Geschert" safety mark from the receiver.

Another member, Hugh Clark or Gerald "G.T." may be able to help you get the left grip repaired.

Be careful taking this to a regular gunsmith. Very few are actually familiar with the Luger mechanism and several subtleties associated with it and it's tuning.

This would normally be a .30 Luger caliber handgun.

The gun was manufactured in Berlin by
Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken



Marc

[alanint]

Welcome to the forum!!

You have what we know as an "Alphabet Commercial", made in the 1920s. It was manufatured by Deutsche Waffen und Munition Fabrik in Germany for commercial export to the United states, (The "Germany" stamp was only applied to guns destined for the US market). The idea that it was brought back from WW1 would be a family legend, not based on fact. still, it is a nice, original commercial gun. I have never personally seen that holster manufacturer's stamp, but one of the leather experts will chime in on what you have there.

Nice inheritance!

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by mrerick

Be careful taking this to a regular gunsmith. Very few are actually familiar with the Luger mechanism and several subtleties associated with it and it's tuning.

I have actually gotten a Luger sent to my FFL receiver assembled incorrectly. A 'gunsmith' would likely know how to examine a Luger, but actual 'gunsmiths' are a dying breed [literally].

These days, every gun shop owner thinks he is a 'smith', but most only rack the toggle and pull the trigger and pronounce it "shootable".

This old, it should have someone familiar with Lugers check it over, meaning a fairly deep disassembly and inspection of parts prone to breakage that may not be visible from a cursory examination (firing pin spring guide for instance).

[Edward Tinker]

it is possible it came to the USA, and went back to Germany with a german or a GI and so was brought back.

What is more likely is that your grandfather did pick up a luger and at some point it was sold, stolen or the like and he picked up another to replace it here in the states. I have heard of that many times

Ed

[kdcarver]

Thank you everyone who replied. I appreciate the feedback. Impressed by the knowledge! Is there a DWM serial number cross reference anywhere?

I would very much like to get the holster refurbished. How would I contact Jeff Burney?

I've been lucky to inherit several unique firearms, and if not valuable, sentimental. The gun repair shop that I bring my firearms to here in Houston has been reliable and conservative when it comes to repairs. They did a very good job with refurbishing my Model 12 Winchester 16 ga (my paternal grandfather's fun) and my Browning sweet 16 (my maternal grandfather's). Before I saw these replies, I had already dropped off the luger at the shop today. Both of the lead repairmen looked over it, and discussed with me that it takes a little work to properly clean the gun because of the tight tolerances and "swiss watch" mechanisms. I feel like it's probably in good hands.

I'll talk to my mother about that legend (which from the physical evidence, I believe is just that, a legend). Maybe it was a tale my grandmother would tell to keep me entertained as a youngster. In any event, she may be able to tell me exactly what Don Weldon did in WWI, or give me leads to followup on!

[Edward Tinker]

No on a serial number database

Jerry's info


Jerry Burney
636 Scenic Lane
Howard, CO 81233

lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net
lugerholsterrepair@yahoo.com

[Bill_in_VA]

Originally Posted by kdcarver

... Before I saw these replies, I had already dropped off the luger at the shop today. Both of the lead repairmen looked over it, and discussed with me that it takes a little work to properly clean the gun because of the tight tolerances and "swiss watch" mechanisms. I feel like it's probably in good hands.
...

What's in need of "refurbishment"? The gun looks fine and certainly does not need to be reblued. (And if you do reblue it you move the gun from being a nice honest collectible pistol to a shooter.)

[kdcarver]

By "refurbish", I really mean "clean": ultrasonic parts cleaning and oiling. I'd like to shoot the weapon, and don't want to chance an issue in doing so.

By collecticible, what do you mean?

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by kdcarver

By collecticible, what do you mean?

What makes a gun collectable is its being as close to the condition and configuration in which it left the factory as possible. So, original parts, original finish, and best condition possible. A Luger with all original-to-the-gun parts--not just period or model correct, serial numbers that should properly match--not "force-matched" by later re-numbering of replaced parts, or newly-stamped (faked) in inappropriate font....You get the idea, I'm sure.

Most serious collectors don't shoot their collectibles, particularly the rare or high end ones, because the breakage of an original, number matched part reduces it to "shooter" category, and its value plummets by perhaps two score (or more--depending...)percent! Shooting one's collectable guns is a personal decision. Some do it on rare occasions, because, well, sometimes you just can't resist. But each round presents the potential for a broken part. Bottom line, there's ALWAYS that risk. Bravado and stupidity in this question might just be the same thing. One can mitigate the risks somewhat by shooting with replacement stand-in parts for the ones most at risk of failure or damage, so there is some middle ground.

All mine are shooters, albeit in best condition I could afford. I sleep better at night than if they were seriously collectable!

Oh, and I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that when Jerry has fixed up your holster and you have it back, don't store the gun in it. It's risky to the finish to keep steel in leather long term.

[Sergio Natali]

Kirk

Other forum members of this forum at this point are probably thinking: "Oh nooo! He's saying the same things again!"
... BUT
I like to go to the shooting range quite regularly that's why I would tell you to have it properly checked by a serious armourer first, in my opinion these old Lugers should never be fired with modern high speed and high power ammunitions as with the time they might be structurally unsuound.
First of all shoot safe!

IMHO

Sergio

[kdcarver]

Thanks for the feedback. I felt that having the gun professionally cleaned (ie someone that had some level of experience cleaning Lugers, rather than me trying to monkey my way through it) would be ok. If I then chose to fire the weapon, at most I'd be safe, at least the gun would be cleaner.

Thanks for the input on the ammunition and the holster. I have several 7.65 rounds (actually .30 stamped) which I would use if I decided to fire it. Not sure if there us a way to get new .30 cartridges.

On value, I'm have no idea what the gun would be worth. To me it's a reminder of my grandparents and thier two lineages. So the value to me is solely sentimental. Lots of neat "greatest generation" stories.

[rhuff]

In answer to your question concerning 30 luger ammo......It is still being made by Fiocchi and Winchester. The latter is waaay too expensive from my way of looking at it. The Fiocchi arrives to the dealers in spurts and runs in the $20-25/box of 50 range. It is excellent ammo for the Luger.

[kdcarver]

Thank you everyone for the help so far. I have sent my holster off to Jerry in CO to see what magic he can work with it. In the meantime, I got the pistol back from the gunshop after they cleaned it and ran several of the 7.65 rounds through it.

Looks good, but before shooting it I'm a little concerned about the magazine. The spring is original, so I'm not sure how it will react cycling through several series of targets. I've ordered some of the Fiocchi FMJ (plus some soft point boxes) from another dealer who carries them locally. Should be here by the end of the week. I asked him if he knew of any company that produced replacement magazines that would fit my 30 Luger. He said he didn't offhand, but would check. He sent me the following link:

http://www.ammoclip.com/L/luger_main.htm

Have any of you dealt with this company? Do you have any alternatives that I might look into?

Kirk

[wlyon]

Kirk
Contact GT on this Forum. He is the mag pro. Bill

[kdcarver]

Bill

Thanks. I searched for "GT" using the search function on the for but couldn't find him. Is there another way to get his info?

Kirk

[RoyalTermite]

Here ya go: http://forum.lugerforum.com/member.php?u=20

[John Sabato]

When GT reworks your magazines, he removes all the bumps and dents with his magic tools and skills and it will fit your Luger so well that when you push the mag release it will drop out of the gun by its own weight... Gerry is no slouch when it comes to precision...