Metal Hardness and Finish

[alanint]

The topic of varying colors on example Lugers is often brought up, with the side-plate and toggle usually being the area of interest. Pistols often exhibit varying colors in these two areas. .

I came across a couple of photos of a "dug" Luger, which apparently rested in a largely anaerobic atmosphere. Observe the difference in finish/surface deterioration of the various sections of the pistol, with the oft mentioned toggle and side plate being prominent.

[Eugen]

Interesting photos and condition of that buried Luger, albeit tragic appearance. Looks like the Bakelite grips survived fairly well.

Thanks for sharing the photos.

[Dick Herman]

Could this be a Krieghoff luger? Are the grips proper for the later variations?

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by Dick Herman

Could this be a Krieghoff luger? Are the grips proper for the later variations?

There's a Mauser hump in it. So, not a Krieghoff.

And those grips look like the ones found on 41 an 42 BYF Mauser.

I also wonder what happened to the sear bar, the safety lever and the grip screws.

[saab-bob]

I wonder why the canon assembly is set back in the frame?
Maybe the main spring is also gone?
Strange way to be left lying in the dirt.
Bob

[alanint]

I'm guessing that the missing parts were closest to the surface and exposed to the elements. These rusted away, while the balance of the pistol was protected. By perusing these European and Russian "dig" videos on You Tube, you realize how important the medium in which artifacts were buried affects the condition in which they are found. I've seen MP40s with supple slings and superb condition come out of mud bogs. It is clear that a simple hosing off and lubrication would but them back into operation, while others are nothing but piles of rust.

[cirelaw]

Is there a market for the luger relics?

[John Sabato]

Think about this scenario...My hypothesis for the missing parts is that the German soldier, or perhaps resistance fighter, probably about to be captured, disabled his sidearm by removing the missing parts and then pitched it so when he surrendered he would not be bearing arms.

The missing (broken) safety lever probably snapped off when someone attempted to move the lever upon discovery.

Disabling the gun in this manner makes it useless to the enemy, and at the same time protects any non-combatant who might find the gun... I imagine that many sideplates suffered the same fate.

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Is there a market for the luger relics?

Eric, I am sure there is, but in THIS country, such a relic would still be considered a firearm and all laws regarding a firearm would still have to be applicable. Including possession and transfer laws.

[cirelaw]

There is an actual museum featuring these firearms~http://americanhandgunner.com/codys-dug-up-gun-museum/

[cirelaw]

Doug, I came across a dig up rusty treasure~~https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kPGwi2f4Q

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Think about this scenario...My hypothesis for the missing parts is that the German soldier, or perhaps resistance fighter, probably about to be captured, disabled his sidearm by removing the missing parts and then pitched it so when he surrendered he would not be bearing arms.

The missing (broken) safety lever probably snapped off when someone attempted to move the lever upon discovery.

Disabling the gun in this manner makes it useless to the enemy, and at the same time protects any non-combatant who might find the gun... I imagine that many sideplates suffered the same fate.

John,
I thought about it, but removing the sear bar takes time, not to mention a tool to remove the spring- so I'm not buying.

Why not toss the whole thing? or remove the cannon and toss it one way, the side plate another, and the frame a third?

Takes way less time and serves the same purpose; though it is a stretch to see any real purpose in "disabling" a weapon.

How about this scenario:
Given to a kid to play with after the war(with sear bar removed),
lost in the woods for years. Found as we see it.

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

John,
I thought about it, but removing the sear bar takes time, not to mention a tool to remove the spring- so I'm not buying.

Why not toss the whole thing? or remove the cannon and toss it one way, the side plate another, and the frame a third?

Takes way less time and serves the same purpose; though it is a stretch to see any real purpose in "disabling" a weapon.

How about this scenario:
Given to a kid to play with after the war(with sear bar removed),
lost in the woods for years. Found as we see it.

Don your concept is plausible, but my "tool" for removing the sear spring is my fingernail! it is what I have always used. I simply catch the spring under the curl on the end with my index fingernail and lift and it comes right out. Once the spring is removed, and toggle is locked back over the empty magazine, I would bet that the sear bar would drop out pretty easily.

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Don your concept is plausible, but my "tool" for removing the sear spring is my fingernail! it is what I have always used. I simply catch the spring under the curl on the end with my index fingernail and lift and it comes right out. Once the spring is removed, and toggle is locked back over the empty magazine, I would bet that the sear bar would drop out pretty easily.

Even though my "tool" for removing the sear spring is the same as yours. I really don't buy your scenario. I believe the side plate would be missing too in such case.

And the mystery of the missing heads of the grip screws remains to explain.

[DonVoigt]

You guys have strong finger nails, or easier to remove springs, or both!

Don't you think at the very least the magazine would have been tossed too?

A pistol in that "complete" looking condition could easily get one shot- remember the unfortunates that were shot in recent years with "toy" pistols, orange muzzle or not !

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

You guys have strong finger nails, or easier to remove springs, or both!

Don't you think at the very least the magazine would have been tossed too?

A pistol in that "complete" looking condition could easily get one shot- remember the unfortunates that were shot in recent years with "toy" pistols, orange muzzle or not !

I use a trick. I depress the front end of the sear bar, that will push the spring out, hook my fingernail in the spring hook, then release the pressure on the sear bar and pull the spring forward. It gets easy if you do it a million times.

[cirelaw]

'Luger 101' Thanks to our luger teachers sharing priceless hands on knowledge! Most of all, mutual respect is always shown to and by all. We can all be teachers and friends. Its important that we preserve and pass down our combined knowledge and common addiction and appreciation. Our posts are essential as they contain luger reality!! I encourage all to answer or start a thread!! Share your thoughts as it is always welcomed~~~~~Eric

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by kurusu

I use a trick. I depress the front end of the sear bar, that will push the spring out, hook my fingernail in the spring hook, then release the pressure on the sear bar and pull the spring forward. It gets easy if you do it a million times.

Thanks, that is a cool little trick!
Unfortunately I just have to look at my nails wrong and they chip!

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by kurusu

And the mystery of the missing heads of the grip screws remains to explain.

The grip screws aren't that hard, and if someone attempted removal in their obviously rusted-in condition without soaking them in penetrant first, it's not much of a mystery why they're both twisted off!

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Don't you think at the very least the magazine would have been tossed too?

I would be that considering the condition of the rest of the pistol that the magazine is rusted in place and can't be easily removed. It would have to soak in oil penetration fluid (PB Blaster is a good example) and even then might require to be pounded out.


Oh, and carefully removed and cleaned, I would bet that the grips would be reusable. They are genuine original byf 41 type grips.