Not a Luger...very rare Colt SAA

Hugh · 05-04-2014, 11:15 AM

I recently acquired a Colt Single Action Army that may very well be one of only two made by Colt. If so, this is truly a very rare gun!

The Colt Single Action Army was first produced by Colt in 1873 in 44 Russian and 45 Colt calibers. Here is a recent find that appears to be one of only two SAA's made in 1875 in 38 Colt caliber, and this particular gun was evidently unknown to the experts because it has never been mentioned in any of the books.

In his book "Colt Revolvers and the US Navy 1865-1889", C. Kenneth Moore devotes 10 pages including detailed close up pictures of Colt SAA serial number 16737, which was shipped to the US Navy in 1875 as a test gun. The gun I have is serial number 16829, and is identical to the Navy test gun.

Concerning the Navy gun sn 16737 Moore states in his book: "Fortunately, this arm was located during the course of research in a private collection. The Colt Factory has no shipping nor any other record of it. However, sufficient proof has been found to determine it is the first .38 caliber Colt Single Action Army revolver shipped. The Colt Factory may have retained another revolver in this caliber for its own use, but there was no evidence located to this effect. As will be seen, it was shipped from the Colt Factory on July 7, 1875, to the "Bureau of Ordinance, Navy" for testing." (Emphasis added by me)

My gun has all matching numbers; frame, trigger guard, backstrap, cylinder, barrel and grips, the assembly number on the frame and loading gate match. All the numbers are identical and of the "early style" configuration. The barrel is 6 1/2" long and the address lettering on the top is of the early "script" style. It is chambered in 38 Colt, the chambers are drilled straight through; the rear of the chambers are .382" and the fronts are .379". It chambers 38 Short & Long Colt, 38 Special and 357 Magnum. It will not chamber 38 Colt New Police or 38 S&W. Interesting to note that the rifling is not the early "narrow lands" type, and not the later "wide lands" type, but different from any I have seen before. It has 6 lands & grooves, but the lands are wider than the grooves!.

It is in excellent condition, retaining some of the original case colors and bluing, with no pitting. The bore is in excellent condition, with no pitting. The overall appearance of the gun is one that was carried or handled a lot, but not fired very much and/or was cleaned thoroughly afterward, with no corrosion from black powder evident.

I contacted the Colt Archives Dept, and they have no shipment record of either sn16829 or sn 16737. The Archivist said that this is not unusual with the early guns, as records are incomplete for this period.

Ron Wood · 05-04-2014, 11:33 AM

Wow Hugh, that is a stunner! Congratulations. You really struck pay dirt this time.
Ron

Edward Tinker · 05-04-2014, 12:04 PM

Hugh, I have sold a couple of 1st gen Colts, regretted it both times

Wow, excellent find!

Ed

ithacaartist · 05-05-2014, 09:20 AM

An amazing find, Hugh. I crave an SAA, myself, but it will need to be a knock-off to be within my feduciary reach!

Hugh · 05-05-2014, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

An amazing find, Hugh. I crave an SAA, myself, but it will need to be a knock-off to be within my feduciary reach!

The Cimarron repros are excellent guns!
http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/

Douglas Jr. · 05-05-2014, 01:07 PM

Sounds like one of those "once in lifetime" finds!
And... you gotta love that patina!

MFC · 05-07-2014, 11:51 PM

Hugh,
First congratulations. I can imagine how you must feel. You must be grinning from ear to ear.
Please tell us how you found it.

ithacaartist · 05-08-2014, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

The Cimarron repros are excellent guns!
http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/

Right-o, thanks for the link, Hugh! Something like this would be sweet http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/car...del-mp450.html I'd better start gathering up deposit bottles and scrap metal--NOW!

Hugh · 05-08-2014, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFC

Hugh,
First congratulations. I can imagine how you must feel. You must be grinning from ear to ear.
Please tell us how you found it.

It was on Gun Broker, listed by a pawn shop in Billings, MT. There were only a couple of other serious bidders, but I outlasted them and got it cheap! I guess other Colt collectors thought it wasn't for real or just overlooked it.

Curss · 05-08-2014, 04:22 PM

I have to concur with Douglas, THAT patina sure gives that gun character! Seems it still has a bit of the case hardening too!

Hugh · 08-09-2014, 01:15 AM

Jim Solomon · 08-09-2014, 05:08 AM

Congratulations my friend......Jim

mrerick · 08-09-2014, 05:41 AM

Hugh, what wonderful news!

Congratulations.

Marc

DavidJayUden · 08-09-2014, 08:10 AM

Hugh:
I say we buff it up, salt blue it, and take it to the range. I've even got some .38 special ++P loads that might fit...
Just kidding.
An incredible find, and if you don't mind my asking, do you have any idea as to value?
dju

hansfischer007 · 08-09-2014, 12:25 PM

..I just want to know…as Im sure other Members as well……the "Story" on how you found it….where…??…who had it..?…and of course how much…??……….Many years ago….I worked for a major airlines on the Ticket Counter….and one of the Airport Police Officers and I were good friends……and we both worked late nite shifts……and "talked guns" a lot……one time he told me about "an old gun that belonged to his Uncle."…….said after his uncle died…his aunt put it in the attic in a suitcase……then many years later gave it to him……….he said…"one of these days will bring it in to show you…..she gave it to me and I really don't want it……I want a .44 Magnum,!!…as Im planning on moving to Alaska"…well…this went on for a couple of months….."gonna bring that old gun in one of these days…etc…etc…"…….well….one nite….about 2300 he showed up at the counter….the airport was deserted….I worked until 0200 shift…..he had a paper bag…..we went in the back room…..he pulls out….a WW1 Colt .45 automatic……granted the finish was pretty worn…..but he said……." I really don't want this dang thing…..Give me $30.00 and its yours..!!"…….well…I was in shock…and as we were friends….told him it was worth a lot more than $30.00……but he said……."we are friends…and I want you to have it…"……..and I still have it…..actually gave it to my youngest son …who is a police Sergeant…. so sometimes….."Good Stuff"…just comes along

rolandtg · 08-09-2014, 01:37 PM

Incredible acquisition! Congrats!

Heh, did Colt make you an offer?

rhuff · 08-09-2014, 03:14 PM

Hugh,

It just doesn't get much better than that. A very nice piece, with Colt documentation as to it pedigree. Enjoy!!

Hugh · 08-09-2014, 05:41 PM

"An incredible find, and if you don't mind my asking, do you have any idea as to value?"
dju

"..I just want to know…as Im sure other Members as well……the "Story" on how you found it….where…??…who had it..?…and of course how much…??…"

Read previous posts to see where I got it. I paid around $3300 and I will guess that the value is in the 5 digits figure.
HC

lawrence · 08-13-2014, 10:51 PM

Fabulous, Hugh! Happy this rare piece of history landed in a gentleman's hands. I'm trying not to be covetous

DavidJayUden · 08-13-2014, 11:23 PM

5 figures? So I suppose wringing it out at the range is out of the question?
Congratulations on your good fortune.
dju

05-04-2014, 11:15 AM	#1
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Not a Luger...very rare Colt SAA I recently acquired a Colt Single Action Army that may very well be one of only two made by Colt. If so, this is truly a very rare gun! The Colt Single Action Army was first produced by Colt in 1873 in 44 Russian and 45 Colt calibers. Here is a recent find that appears to be one of only two SAA's made in 1875 in 38 Colt caliber, and this particular gun was evidently unknown to the experts because it has never been mentioned in any of the books. In his book "Colt Revolvers and the US Navy 1865-1889", C. Kenneth Moore devotes 10 pages including detailed close up pictures of Colt SAA serial number 16737, which was shipped to the US Navy in 1875 as a test gun. The gun I have is serial number 16829, and is identical to the Navy test gun. Concerning the Navy gun sn 16737 Moore states in his book: "Fortunately, this arm was located during the course of research in a private collection. The Colt Factory has no shipping nor any other record of it. However, sufficient proof has been found to determine it is the first .38 caliber Colt Single Action Army revolver shipped. The Colt Factory may have retained another revolver in this caliber for its own use, but there was no evidence located to this effect. As will be seen, it was shipped from the Colt Factory on July 7, 1875, to the "Bureau of Ordinance, Navy" for testing." (Emphasis added by me) My gun has all matching numbers; frame, trigger guard, backstrap, cylinder, barrel and grips, the assembly number on the frame and loading gate match. All the numbers are identical and of the "early style" configuration. The barrel is 6 1/2" long and the address lettering on the top is of the early "script" style. It is chambered in 38 Colt, the chambers are drilled straight through; the rear of the chambers are .382" and the fronts are .379". It chambers 38 Short & Long Colt, 38 Special and 357 Magnum. It will not chamber 38 Colt New Police or 38 S&W. Interesting to note that the rifling is not the early "narrow lands" type, and not the later "wide lands" type, but different from any I have seen before. It has 6 lands & grooves, but the lands are wider than the grooves!. It is in excellent condition, retaining some of the original case colors and bluing, with no pitting. The bore is in excellent condition, with no pitting. The overall appearance of the gun is one that was carried or handled a lot, but not fired very much and/or was cleaned thoroughly afterward, with no corrosion from black powder evident. I contacted the Colt Archives Dept, and they have no shipment record of either sn16829 or sn 16737. The Archivist said that this is not unusual with the early guns, as records are incomplete for this period. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

05-04-2014, 11:33 AM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Wow Hugh, that is a stunner! Congratulations. You really struck pay dirt this time. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

05-04-2014, 12:04 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Hugh, I have sold a couple of 1st gen Colts, regretted it both times Wow, excellent find! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-05-2014, 09:20 AM	#4
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,291 Thanks: 7,058 Thanked 2,483 Times in 1,324 Posts	An amazing find, Hugh. I crave an SAA, myself, but it will need to be a knock-off to be within my feduciary reach! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

05-07-2014, 11:51 PM	#7
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Hugh, First congratulations. I can imagine how you must feel. You must be grinning from ear to ear. Please tell us how you found it. __________________ Mike C.

05-05-2014, 01:07 PM	#6
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	Sounds like one of those "once in lifetime" finds! And... you gotta love that patina!

05-08-2014, 04:22 PM	#10
Curss User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 303 Thanks: 304 Thanked 98 Times in 75 Posts	I have to concur with Douglas, THAT patina sure gives that gun character! Seems it still has a bit of the case hardening too! __________________ -Chris

08-09-2014, 01:15 AM	#11
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Update-it's real! __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

08-09-2014, 05:08 AM	#12
Jim Solomon Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Georgia Posts: 193 Thanks: 696 Thanked 173 Times in 66 Posts	Congratulations my friend......Jim __________________ Jim Solomon dent2@frontiernet.net

08-09-2014, 05:41 AM	#13
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,901 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hugh, what wonderful news! Congratulations. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-09-2014, 08:10 AM	#14
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Hugh: I say we buff it up, salt blue it, and take it to the range. I've even got some .38 special ++P loads that might fit... Just kidding. An incredible find, and if you don't mind my asking, do you have any idea as to value? dju

08-09-2014, 12:25 PM	#15
hansfischer007 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sunny Tennessee Posts: 233 Thanks: 509 Thanked 96 Times in 48 Posts	Colt .38 Story.?? ..I just want to know…as Im sure other Members as well……the "Story" on how you found it….where…??…who had it..?…and of course how much…??……….Many years ago….I worked for a major airlines on the Ticket Counter….and one of the Airport Police Officers and I were good friends……and we both worked late nite shifts……and "talked guns" a lot……one time he told me about "an old gun that belonged to his Uncle."…….said after his uncle died…his aunt put it in the attic in a suitcase……then many years later gave it to him……….he said…"one of these days will bring it in to show you…..she gave it to me and I really don't want it……I want a .44 Magnum,!!…as Im planning on moving to Alaska"…well…this went on for a couple of months….."gonna bring that old gun in one of these days…etc…etc…"…….well….one nite….about 2300 he showed up at the counter….the airport was deserted….I worked until 0200 shift…..he had a paper bag…..we went in the back room…..he pulls out….a WW1 Colt .45 automatic……granted the finish was pretty worn…..but he said……." I really don't want this dang thing…..Give me $30.00 and its yours..!!"…….well…I was in shock…and as we were friends….told him it was worth a lot more than $30.00……but he said……."we are friends…and I want you to have it…"……..and I still have it…..actually gave it to my youngest son …who is a police Sergeant…. so sometimes….."Good Stuff"…just comes along

08-09-2014, 01:37 PM	#16
rolandtg User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 472 Thanks: 364 Thanked 255 Times in 111 Posts	Incredible acquisition! Congrats! Heh, did Colt make you an offer?

08-09-2014, 03:14 PM	#17
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,274 Thanks: 2,693 Thanked 961 Times in 707 Posts	Hugh, It just doesn't get much better than that. A very nice piece, with Colt documentation as to it pedigree. Enjoy!!

08-09-2014, 05:41 PM	#18
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	"An incredible find, and if you don't mind my asking, do you have any idea as to value?" dju "..I just want to know…as Im sure other Members as well……the "Story" on how you found it….where…??…who had it..?…and of course how much…??…" Read previous posts to see where I got it. I paid around $3300 and I will guess that the value is in the 5 digits figure. HC __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

08-13-2014, 10:51 PM	#19
lawrence User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ky Posts: 39 Thanks: 17 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	Fabulous, Hugh! Happy this rare piece of history landed in a gentleman's hands. I'm trying not to be covetous

08-13-2014, 11:23 PM	#20
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	5 figures? So I suppose wringing it out at the range is out of the question? Congratulations on your good fortune. dju