Swiss 1900 DWM Luger with factory mismatched barrel ?

Guisan · 08-12-2007, 07:58 AM

A collector/dealer in Switzerland just got this one in...

Monday morning or Friday late production ?

Guisan.

drbuster · 08-12-2007, 10:03 AM

Very nice 1900. The extractor seems to be arsenal replaced. I guess this Luger was assembled on a Monday!

Pete Ebbink · 08-12-2007, 11:26 AM

Barrel SN and frame SN seem to be one off...from each other.

drbuster · 08-12-2007, 01:56 PM

Pete, that was the whole point! It shows that even in the early times of Luger production inspection goofs occurred.

Heinz · 08-12-2007, 02:03 PM

I do not think it shows that. I think it raises questions about the history of this piece. The marking instructions call for barrels and frames to be serial numbered after they are assembled. Which is why they have halos. SO we presume the worker stamped the first set of numbers, then took the four stamps and put them all back in the stamp tray, then pulled three correct numbers and one wrong for the last stamp? That is not a process that any one who has ever stamped serial numbers would follow. More likely whoever replaced the barrel got one stamp wrong. Looks like a difference in wear patterns between the fames and the reciever also. Another factory mistake?

Vlim · 08-12-2007, 04:28 PM

I agree that the swapping of the guns upper and frame seems to be the best explanation.

Imagine two guns with 3134 and 3135 being serviced, used or present at a single location. Parts got swapped, nobody noticed.

I seriously doubt this one started out as a production error.

Pete Ebbink · 08-12-2007, 04:50 PM

Doc,

If you would spend big bucks and sleep well with that one in your safes, you are a better man than me...I could not...

Dwight Gruber · 08-12-2007, 05:33 PM

Frank,

Any chance in finding out the number stamped on the bottom of the receiver lug?

Do you know if this gun is c/BUG proofed or Swiss Military?

--Dwight

drbuster · 08-12-2007, 10:32 PM

Pete, this piece I would never buy! Mistakes of production, marking, etc. are impossible to explain when it comes time to sell no matter what provenence you are told.

Guisan · 08-13-2007, 04:10 AM

Dwight this non-matching barrel is just an interesting observation and I don't want to dig too deep into it as we won't find the answer anyway. I noticed that the number style is similar so the same set of stamps may have been used and for the rest it's guessing what has happened.

Guisan.

Dwight Gruber · 08-13-2007, 05:02 AM

Frank,

Whether the number on the recoil lug matches the barrel or the frame will reveal something significant about the origins of the parts.

The proof mark question will determine whether or not it can be added to the Commercial database.

--Dwight

Guisan · 08-13-2007, 11:26 AM

Ok send him an email about it, may take a while but will post it when I get to know.

Guisan.

08-12-2007, 07:58 AM	#1
Guisan User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 112 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Swiss 1900 DWM Luger with factory mismatched barrel ? A collector/dealer in Switzerland just got this one in... Monday morning or Friday late production ? Guisan. __________________ Fight to your last cartridge, then fight with your bayonets. No surrender. Fight to the death. --Gen. Henri Guisan, Switzerland, July '40

08-13-2007, 04:10 AM	#10
Guisan User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 112 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Dwight this non-matching barrel is just an interesting observation and I don't want to dig too deep into it as we won't find the answer anyway. I noticed that the number style is similar so the same set of stamps may have been used and for the rest it's guessing what has happened. Guisan. __________________ Fight to your last cartridge, then fight with your bayonets. No surrender. Fight to the death. --Gen. Henri Guisan, Switzerland, July '40

08-13-2007, 11:26 AM	#12
Guisan User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 112 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Ok send him an email about it, may take a while but will post it when I get to know. Guisan. __________________ Fight to your last cartridge, then fight with your bayonets. No surrender. Fight to the death. --Gen. Henri Guisan, Switzerland, July '40

08-12-2007, 10:03 AM	#2
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Very nice 1900. The extractor seems to be arsenal replaced. I guess this Luger was assembled on a Monday!

08-12-2007, 11:26 AM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Barrel SN and frame SN seem to be one off...from each other.

08-12-2007, 01:56 PM	#4
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Pete, that was the whole point! It shows that even in the early times of Luger production inspection goofs occurred.

08-12-2007, 02:03 PM	#5
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	I do not think it shows that. I think it raises questions about the history of this piece. The marking instructions call for barrels and frames to be serial numbered after they are assembled. Which is why they have halos. SO we presume the worker stamped the first set of numbers, then took the four stamps and put them all back in the stamp tray, then pulled three correct numbers and one wrong for the last stamp? That is not a process that any one who has ever stamped serial numbers would follow. More likely whoever replaced the barrel got one stamp wrong. Looks like a difference in wear patterns between the fames and the reciever also. Another factory mistake?

08-12-2007, 04:28 PM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	I agree that the swapping of the guns upper and frame seems to be the best explanation. Imagine two guns with 3134 and 3135 being serviced, used or present at a single location. Parts got swapped, nobody noticed. I seriously doubt this one started out as a production error.

08-12-2007, 04:50 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Doc, If you would spend big bucks and sleep well with that one in your safes, you are a better man than me...I could not...

08-12-2007, 05:33 PM	#8
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Frank, Any chance in finding out the number stamped on the bottom of the receiver lug? Do you know if this gun is c/BUG proofed or Swiss Military? --Dwight

08-12-2007, 10:32 PM	#9
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Pete, this piece I would never buy! Mistakes of production, marking, etc. are impossible to explain when it comes time to sell no matter what provenence you are told.

08-13-2007, 05:02 AM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Frank, Whether the number on the recoil lug matches the barrel or the frame will reveal something significant about the origins of the parts. The proof mark question will determine whether or not it can be added to the Commercial database. --Dwight