Interesting .22 cal. S/42 Luger

junglejim · 08-08-2009, 02:15 PM

Here are pictures of an interesting Luger. It is a 1938 dated gun that was built by John G. Lawson, who was the gunsmith editor for numerous magazines over the years. The gun is one of two (the other kept by John) ever made. It shoots a necked down 9mm largo to .22 cal. It shoots a 45 gr. jhp at about 1400 fps. Just thought you would like to see it. John does not use any collector grade pistols in his rebuilds.

Ron Smith · 08-08-2009, 02:33 PM

Jim,

That is a pretty cool conversion. How does it shoot? Does it cycle reliably?

Ron

junglejim · 08-08-2009, 04:31 PM

Yes Ron, It is reliable after much experimentation to get the right bullet and powder. I have the necessary dies to reload. The gun uses standard mags. I also have a target luger done by John that was pictured in the 2002 Guns & Ammo Annual. Here is a picture of that gun. 9X21 mm, sight from Thompson Contender.

sheepherder · 08-08-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junglejim

I have the necessary dies to reload.

Jim -

Are they shortened rifle dies??? Or custom made???

junglejim · 08-08-2009, 06:16 PM

Postino, They are F.L. custom dies from RCBS. John Lawson sent them the critical measurements, and they made them. Actually, I don't think that custom dies cost that much more than standard. Jim

junglejim · 08-08-2009, 06:24 PM

The cartridge in the picture is a dummy (no primer). In the process of trimming, annealing, necking down from a straight case to a bottle neck, neck reaming, etc. I loose some cases. That is where the dummy came from.

PhilOhio · 08-09-2009, 11:07 AM

Very neat. I've never heard of that wildcat before. I'll bet it makes quite a bang, from that short barrel; and quite a ball of fire around dusk. I'd say you have a very interesting Luger custom variant.

It reminds me of a similar, but hotter, round I reload for a modified M-1 carbine, the 5.7mm Johnson. That's a .30 carbine case necked down to take 45 to 55 grain .223 bullets. You can drive them pretty fast, and they make a nice crack; accurate and effective on varmints at close to medium range. This was one of the late Mel Johnson's pet projects, but very few of the finished guns were sold. His son runs a nice website covering all this.

Oh yes, it is nearly identical to FN's "new" 5.7mm smg round, which is slightly smaller, slightly less powerful, and looks like it was cribbed directly from the Johnson cartridge...but no gun writer seems yet to have figured this out. Side by side, they are almost identical twins.

John Sabato · 08-10-2009, 10:34 AM

Please post the website of Mr. Johnson's son on the history of the 5.7mm Johnson Cartridge.

Thanks.

PhilOhio · 08-11-2009, 01:38 PM

John,

Here's the first one, the "Johnson Automatics" homepage. That was the name Mel gave to his company which produced the guns for commercial sale after the war. A James P. Pullen organized the site and runs it. Or he did in 2002. Mel's son is closely assocaited with it and accessible there, I believe. The site goes out in many directions and is very interesting.

http://www.johnsonautomatics.com/

I'm not sure what the tie-in is with this second site, which is a gathering point for people interested in the Johnson guns and this unusual 5.7 cartridge. This site also has a few interesting branches, and through it you can meet some interesting people.

http://www.imageseek.com/5.7mm/

I haven't woven my way through these two sites for a long time, so you'll have to check where the path to the current Mr. Johnson appears, but it is there. He seems to be a very nice fellow, and a shooter, and certainly interested in preserving the record of what his dad accomplished; which, in my opinion, was quite a lot and not often remembered or fully appreciated. I think he would be interested in approaches from anybody who understands this, and is seriously into firearms development history. When his dad's small company was briefly operating, this son was very young, but his dad had him helping in it. So he has good first hand knowledge of what went on; what was sold; what existed and what did not.

08-08-2009, 02:15 PM	#1
junglejim User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Interesting .22 cal. S/42 Luger Here are pictures of an interesting Luger. It is a 1938 dated gun that was built by John G. Lawson, who was the gunsmith editor for numerous magazines over the years. The gun is one of two (the other kept by John) ever made. It shoots a necked down 9mm largo to .22 cal. It shoots a 45 gr. jhp at about 1400 fps. Just thought you would like to see it. John does not use any collector grade pistols in his rebuilds. Attached Thumbnails

08-08-2009, 02:33 PM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Jim, That is a pretty cool conversion. How does it shoot? Does it cycle reliably? Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

08-08-2009, 04:31 PM	#3
junglejim User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger is reliable. Here is another Lawson creation Yes Ron, It is reliable after much experimentation to get the right bullet and powder. I have the necessary dies to reload. The gun uses standard mags. I also have a target luger done by John that was pictured in the 2002 Guns & Ammo Annual. Here is a picture of that gun. 9X21 mm, sight from Thompson Contender. Attached Thumbnails

08-10-2009, 10:34 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Please post the website of Mr. Johnson's son on the history of the 5.7mm Johnson Cartridge. Thanks. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-08-2009, 06:16 PM	#5
junglejim User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Postino, They are F.L. custom dies from RCBS. John Lawson sent them the critical measurements, and they made them. Actually, I don't think that custom dies cost that much more than standard. Jim

08-08-2009, 06:24 PM	#6
junglejim User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The cartridge in the picture is a dummy (no primer). In the process of trimming, annealing, necking down from a straight case to a bottle neck, neck reaming, etc. I loose some cases. That is where the dummy came from.

08-09-2009, 11:07 AM	#7
PhilOhio User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 145 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	Very neat. I've never heard of that wildcat before. I'll bet it makes quite a bang, from that short barrel; and quite a ball of fire around dusk. I'd say you have a very interesting Luger custom variant. It reminds me of a similar, but hotter, round I reload for a modified M-1 carbine, the 5.7mm Johnson. That's a .30 carbine case necked down to take 45 to 55 grain .223 bullets. You can drive them pretty fast, and they make a nice crack; accurate and effective on varmints at close to medium range. This was one of the late Mel Johnson's pet projects, but very few of the finished guns were sold. His son runs a nice website covering all this. Oh yes, it is nearly identical to FN's "new" 5.7mm smg round, which is slightly smaller, slightly less powerful, and looks like it was cribbed directly from the Johnson cartridge...but no gun writer seems yet to have figured this out. Side by side, they are almost identical twins.

08-11-2009, 01:38 PM	#9
PhilOhio User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 145 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	John, Here's the first one, the "Johnson Automatics" homepage. That was the name Mel gave to his company which produced the guns for commercial sale after the war. A James P. Pullen organized the site and runs it. Or he did in 2002. Mel's son is closely assocaited with it and accessible there, I believe. The site goes out in many directions and is very interesting. http://www.johnsonautomatics.com/ I'm not sure what the tie-in is with this second site, which is a gathering point for people interested in the Johnson guns and this unusual 5.7 cartridge. This site also has a few interesting branches, and through it you can meet some interesting people. http://www.imageseek.com/5.7mm/ I haven't woven my way through these two sites for a long time, so you'll have to check where the path to the current Mr. Johnson appears, but it is there. He seems to be a very nice fellow, and a shooter, and certainly interested in preserving the record of what his dad accomplished; which, in my opinion, was quite a lot and not often remembered or fully appreciated. I think he would be interested in approaches from anybody who understands this, and is seriously into firearms development history. When his dad's small company was briefly operating, this son was very young, but his dad had him helping in it. So he has good first hand knowledge of what went on; what was sold; what existed and what did not.