Unusual magazine

[drbuster]

Luger magazines usually are as follows: nickel or white metal tubes have wooden bottoms and blued or blackened tubes have aluminum bottoms. I have a magazine with a blued tube without any markings whatsoever with a WOODEN bottom that has had the serial number sanded off. You can still see a "+" mark. It has been varnished. Both Still and Kenyon do not show darkened tubes and wooden bottoms in any of their photos. Is this a total aftermarket fabrication? Does anyone know if this could have been original?

[Dwight Gruber]

Herb,

I have one like that too. It is a DWM magazine, wood bottom with a military serial number. It is blued, but it must be salt-blue as it is blue inside as well. The mag-light shows the finish to be old.

I suspect mine was blued sometime after manufacture, why is anybody's guess. Check the inside of yours, if it is blued it is certainly later work.

--Dwight

[policeluger]

I have several of these "blued" mags. Per Walters "The Luger Book" page 159...."most items (mags) made before 1908 recieved a protective nickel coating, those of lated make being tin plated or blued." Hope this is of some help.

[MauserLugers]

Hi Herbert,
It is highly unlikely that your blued magazine with the wooden bottom is correct. Blued tubes did not start showing up until the "M" block of the 1936 S/42's, so that dates the tubes at the earlist as 1936. The latest that I know of a wooden base was the Obendorf 1934 Mausers. The serial number being sanded and varnished just adds to opinion of it being messed with and non-original. Guess it is your call, but it is very doubtful in my opinion.

[policeluger]

Bill, are you saying that John Walter's is wrong on this....I have owned and seen too many for this to be some after market rework. Please, what is your source for this information, thanks.

[lugercollector]

I have a 1918 DWM Luger #8899a...in mint condition with a matching mag.....wood bottom...blued body....I am sure this is original...Peter...

[policeluger]

I'm with you, but I also really respect MauserLugers, Bill, opinion. He has been right on with so many of his posts here, let's see what he has too say. thanks.

[Imperial Arms]

This is a real good topic indeed! Interestingly, I was thrown into confusion last year when I examined in northern Europe a near mint 1917 Artillery Luger (with light beach wood grips) serial #2Xa with its matching stock/holster - when I removed the matching magazine (the magazine bottom having the same kind of wood as the grips), the magazine body was blued. In my opinion, if the LP08 is genuine and near mint, why would somebody want to make a stupid mistake and blue the magazine? It did not appear that somebody blued the magazine at a later date which would have been easy to detect.

For the time being, I have to agree with Policeluger and Lugercollector (Peter) that these late (1917/18) magazines are correct, but I would need to examine additional military P08/LP08 Lugers with the same magazines until I make a better opinion.

Albert

P.S. Lugercollector, can you please take the pictures of your magazine in daylight in order to see the blue finish better. Repost it or send them to me at imperialarms@att.net - Thanks

[MauserLugers]

Hi All,
I have no reference to quote to verify my opinion. As I stated before, it is a fact that the blue rolled magazine tubes did not exist until mid 1936. The wood bases ended as far as I know on the Obendorf Mauser Lugers of 1934. I think some later Dutch Lugers might of had wooden bases but I'm not familar with them.

No one mentioned what Lugers these are being issued with, but if "Lugercollector" has a 1918 DWM military Luger with a blue tube, then it has been messed with and the tube changed from a nickel to a blue at some time, as it was not issued that way originally in 1918 as it is not possible.

The ONLY Lugers that these blue tubed wooden bases have a remote possiblitly of being correct on in my opinion would be police reworked Lugers, and then only a slight chance. The fact that 1936 is the earlist possible date for the blued tubes means that these would have been reworked for a police Luger after that time, which all the Mauser Police contracts at this time have the H.S. police magazines. So, any blue tube with a wood base would have to be a rework or repair after mid 1936. Official orders at this time would not allow a blued tube with a wooden base on a Mauser military Luger.

I have over 50 Weimar complete rigs and I've only had one police Luger that had a blued tube with a wood base and that was a so called sneak with a blank toggle and in the "T" block. It has two matching magazines with both bases wood and one tube nickel and tube blue with "1" and "2" on them.

I just do not personally believe that you are going to ever find a blued tube with a wooden base on an Imperial army Luger, or Weimar military Lugers, and very, very few on Police Lugers. Yes, Police Weimar Lugers have a combination of wood based magazines and metal based magazines, but not wood bases with blued tubes as the time frame just doesn't indicate this in my opinion. You can justify this by saying that these are arsenal replacements, or field repairs, but I'm not buying it, as they could just as well be 1988 exchanged jobs too.

The sear safety was added in someting like 1932 or 1933 and the magazine safety was removed in something like 1937. The Weimar rework Lugers had long been reworked by Simson or DWM by this time and the only thing being done to them at this time was the above mentioned work and the possibility of new or repaired magazines. Chances are that at this time if the magazines were exchanged they would have had new police issued H.S. magazines and not new blued tubes with the old wood bases which at this time had been officially replaced by orders to use metal bases. I'm very suspicious of these blue tubed wooden based magazines and in my opinion most are post WW2. Just my opinion with nothing other than personal experience to back it, so take it for what you think it is worth.

[Lugerdoc]

Given all the mag bottom changing that is still going on today with GT's exc wood bottoms, I'm sure that defective tubes have been replaced for years. Another recent possibility that I've also seen posted on the Forum, are the post WW2 Finnish extruded (not Schmeisser type) blue tubes with unnumbered crude wood bottoms that InterOrdnance is selling for $19.95 Tom H.

[Frank]

Hello All, I think ole MauserLugers has it right. If someone has a magazine with a military wood base and a blued tube, its been messed with. In my opinion!!!!!!!!

A possibility would be that someone had a dented tube and wanted to preserve a nice wooden base. With a few tools it isn't difficult to remove a magazine bottom and replace it. The difficulty in replacing a metal bottom to a different tube is getting the holes in the tube to line up with the holes in the bottom. With wooden bottoms the alignment is more forgiving.

My 2�¢ worth

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

[policeluger]

I'm not sure here, but I tend to fall back and go with the great work of John Walter, he put much research into his book and MauserLuger can not state a reference to back up his claim. I wish someone would post in here who has additional documented information....yes I have seen and owned few blue tubes as compared to tin/plated, but Walter never said they were made in great numbers, just documented that they were made....it's all fun.

[wterrell]

Fun...my left britches leg! This is gut wrenching!

(a little humor, there.)

[Frank]

MILITARY Luger Magazine Data: Jan C. Still
Imperial Lugers, Page 81
Weimar Lugers, Page 161
Third Reich Lugers, Page 125

Again I stress "Military". Army Directive December 4, 1928 required the change to aluminum bases, after the supply of wooden bases was depleted. The first mention of blue tubes was during the late 1936 production.

I can't comment on Police or Commercial since I haven't done any research on these.

Walter's comment was later, but not how much later is the question that requires an answer. Still said 1936, which clearly is later!

Based on these data, it seems clear that if the magazine botton is clearly Military, the tube shouldn't be blue!!

If anyone can shed further light, please do!!


[img]smile.gif[/img]

[Johnny Peppers]

It is only human nature for us to accept things for the way we want them to be rather than the way they should be. Finding a blued magazine tube in a WWI Luger would be period wise the same as finding an S/42 toggle in a WWI Luger. Even though the numbers might match, it still isn't correct.

[policeluger]

The mags, blue on wood, sit in a plastic parts box, along with others that for the most part will most likly end up beening sold by the widow Mrs. PoliceLuger. I am not in the least concerned as too thier value or trying to sell them. It is not about money or trying too get someone to valadate them. It is about learning, and no one has offered a published artical that states that blue on wood base is faked/aftermarket rework. As too the comment of s/42 Erfurt, please see Still's Weimar page 246. There is his offer of a 1940 Erfurt. I will state that I have wood bottom mags with what I believe to be un-messed with pins, that no one has touched since manufacture..lets see what others have to offer on this subject.

[MauserLugers]

Hi policeluger,
To me this is a very simple question with a very simple answer. 1900 to mid 1936 = nickel tubes and mid 1936 to 1942 = blued tubes.

In my opinion documentation has been provided as to when the blued tubes were officially issued. Perhaps you can provide official documentation to support an earlier issue date?

[policeluger]

I guess for now I am still not sure WW1 era mags can be or not be blued. Just went back and looked over one blued body, wood bottom, no other proof marks, mag and going on the base pin being untouched, well I still go with Walter's on this. This is just the fun of collecting.

[G.T.]

Hi Guys!! In this discussion, I can't really tell you what is... but I can probably tell you what isn't... so here goes... there are some very slight differences in metallurgy between the early WWI mags and the Mauser WWII mags... and, there are also subtle differences in manufacture... one thing I know for sure, is that the plated mag's cannot be blued later... even if you strip them, and buff them, and sand them...it just doesn't work! The bluing will really take on a life of its own...and it looks nothing like Mauser! So heres my theory, if a mag shell is blued, or plated, it is done in quantity, and done during the manufacturing process, not later... So, if it has the distinctive Mauser salt blue... the answer is pretty clear... interesting... who knows! till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

[lugercollector]

Hello Gentlemen.....I will post some more pictures taken in daylight tomorrow.....the main reason I think the magazine is probaly original is that the gun was untouched for 31 years in a safe ...and prior to that,was apparently a vet bring back....I do not know for 100% sure that this was the way it was issued....however,it does not seem likely that someone would play with the mag 30-80 years ago....is there any way of telling the age of the mag tube/body!!???....Peter...