B W Grips - Page 2

Luke · 07-19-2004, 12:35 PM

I think Don's first posting where he comments,
"I noticed I could bend them easy." is revealing.

I have never seen an authentic BW grip which would bend easily. The authentic versions were made from a brittle material, Bakelite.

The unusual shine supports the hypothesis that someone has made a fairly decent casting from an original pair.

The price, $177, is probably about $160 too high IMHO.

Luke

Don H. · 07-19-2004, 12:40 PM

Tracy look again at the scratches above the grip screw from both auctions.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2252550216 Andhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36049&item=2256129043 Either the seller used the same photo for each auction or these grips came from the same mold. Or both grips are scratched in the same place, that I don't think. If you look close you can see it.

tracyp · 07-19-2004, 12:45 PM

Don,

Look at the placement of the grips to each other. My guess is that the seller used that same picture for both sales.

Don H. · 07-19-2004, 12:54 PM

You are right they are placed the same. I will know for sure if the other buyer will get back with me. I will post the findings if he does. Thanks

tracyp · 07-19-2004, 01:34 PM

Don,

Have you talked to the seller yet? Are you planning on returning them? If so, let us know how that turns out.

It would be nice if Jerry Burney would post pics of the Krieghoff repos. Are they Ritzman copies or the course brown type?

Tracy

Pete Ebbink · 07-19-2004, 07:36 PM

Hi Don H.,

Well...you forced me to take both of my grips off my '41 BW and run under warm and even hot tap water...no change in their flexibility (or lack thereof) at all...

The outfit behind the sale of these grips on e-Bay have stellar reputations with most folks on this Forum and I think on the Jan Still forum as well.

I do not think these would have "slipped" by FGS' Doug Smith's or Ken Clark's notice...

If might be possible that a younger member of their organization with less experience in eying real from repro may have been the originator of the postings on e-Bay and it is very possible that person just may not have known the difference. I noticed the e-Bay parts on the auction are being sold from S. Kentucky while the guns sold by FGS originate from Portsmouth, Ohio...which reinforces my theory the "big dogs" at the firm may not know some repros were sold as originals...

My advice would be to call the big dogs at FGS in Ohio and request they look into the matter for you.

http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/contact.html

You might also consider "cutting & pasting" (by drag & click to highlight) this entire discussion thread and "pasting" it into a Word document. When yo do this all the special fonts of the Luger Forum's format along with the posted photos will be copied identically. You could then send the Word document to the folks at FGS...if they do not log onto the Forum, themselves...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Don H. · 07-21-2004, 01:30 PM

Seller agreed to take the grips back and give me a refund. He said he bought them at a gun show. I have an idea as to who is making these and I ordered a set. I will post the results when they come in.

John Sabato · 07-21-2004, 01:51 PM

We shall await your follow-up report Don... Just out of curiosity, what did the set you just ordered cost? My guess is less than $20.00... Am I close?

Don H. · 07-21-2004, 04:35 PM

John they were $35.00 plus $3.50 S&H

Don H. · 07-21-2004, 04:42 PM

John when I called the Co. to order my set he told me that they do have the threaded hole in the back. He also told me that he sold some to one person and he sold them for $125.00 each at a gun show. This co. also has Krieghoff in brown and black also.

John Sabato · 07-21-2004, 05:01 PM

It will be interesting to see if the manufacturing marks (and scratches, etc.) match the photos of the set you have returned...

sambuscemi · 07-21-2004, 05:52 PM

Pete: So you know the seller from S. Kentucky is a former employee of FGS. I know him and know all at FGS. Thought you would like to know.

Doug G. · 07-21-2004, 08:08 PM

Don, would you mind telling us where you ordered them from? Maybe one of us is close enough to take a look?

Pete Ebbink · 07-22-2004, 11:41 AM

Hi Sam,

Are you saying Chris Clark is no longer associated with FGS..thought the family link would last...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Frank · 07-22-2004, 12:29 PM

Sam, I too am surprised that Ken is no longer at FGS!! I have spoken to him many times and he sounds like a right guy. Oh well, I guess anything is possible!

Luke · 07-22-2004, 12:54 PM

How about Pete's question?

I hope Chris Clark has not left FGS????

Luke

Don H. · 07-26-2004, 11:36 AM

Just received the grips and they are not the same as the others. I have no idea who is making these.

John Sabato · 07-26-2004, 04:21 PM

Don, Please post photos of the grips you just received so we can see the quality... if you need help with this, just ask.

John Sabato · 08-24-2004, 12:51 PM

These alleged "Original" Black widow grips are back on ebay from the same seller in Kentucky... same description...same photo

My two cents consists of two words: Caveat Emptor <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

07-19-2004, 12:35 PM	#21
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	I think Don's first posting where he comments, "I noticed I could bend them easy." is revealing. I have never seen an authentic BW grip which would bend easily. The authentic versions were made from a brittle material, Bakelite. The unusual shine supports the hypothesis that someone has made a fairly decent casting from an original pair. The price, $177, is probably about $160 too high IMHO. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

07-21-2004, 01:51 PM	#28
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	We shall await your follow-up report Don... Just out of curiosity, what did the set you just ordered cost? My guess is less than $20.00... Am I close? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-21-2004, 05:01 PM	#31
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	It will be interesting to see if the manufacturing marks (and scratches, etc.) match the photos of the set you have returned... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-21-2004, 08:08 PM	#33
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Don, would you mind telling us where you ordered them from? Maybe one of us is close enough to take a look? __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

07-22-2004, 12:54 PM	#36
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	How about Pete's question? I hope Chris Clark has not left FGS???? Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

07-19-2004, 12:40 PM	#22
Don H. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Albuquerque,NM. Posts: 96 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	Tracy look again at the scratches above the grip screw from both auctions.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2252550216 Andhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36049&item=2256129043 Either the seller used the same photo for each auction or these grips came from the same mold. Or both grips are scratched in the same place, that I don't think. If you look close you can see it.

07-19-2004, 12:45 PM	#23
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Don, Look at the placement of the grips to each other. My guess is that the seller used that same picture for both sales.

07-19-2004, 12:54 PM	#24
Don H. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Albuquerque,NM. Posts: 96 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	You are right they are placed the same. I will know for sure if the other buyer will get back with me. I will post the findings if he does. Thanks

07-19-2004, 01:34 PM	#25
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Don, Have you talked to the seller yet? Are you planning on returning them? If so, let us know how that turns out. It would be nice if Jerry Burney would post pics of the Krieghoff repos. Are they Ritzman copies or the course brown type? Tracy

07-19-2004, 07:36 PM	#26
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Don H., Well...you forced me to take both of my grips off my '41 BW and run under warm and even hot tap water...no change in their flexibility (or lack thereof) at all... The outfit behind the sale of these grips on e-Bay have stellar reputations with most folks on this Forum and I think on the Jan Still forum as well. I do not think these would have "slipped" by FGS' Doug Smith's or Ken Clark's notice... If might be possible that a younger member of their organization with less experience in eying real from repro may have been the originator of the postings on e-Bay and it is very possible that person just may not have known the difference. I noticed the e-Bay parts on the auction are being sold from S. Kentucky while the guns sold by FGS originate from Portsmouth, Ohio...which reinforces my theory the "big dogs" at the firm may not know some repros were sold as originals... My advice would be to call the big dogs at FGS in Ohio and request they look into the matter for you. http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/contact.html You might also consider "cutting & pasting" (by drag & click to highlight) this entire discussion thread and "pasting" it into a Word document. When yo do this all the special fonts of the Luger Forum's format along with the posted photos will be copied identically. You could then send the Word document to the folks at FGS...if they do not log onto the Forum, themselves... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-21-2004, 01:30 PM	#27
Don H. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Albuquerque,NM. Posts: 96 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	Seller agreed to take the grips back and give me a refund. He said he bought them at a gun show. I have an idea as to who is making these and I ordered a set. I will post the results when they come in.

07-21-2004, 04:35 PM	#29
Don H. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Albuquerque,NM. Posts: 96 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	John they were $35.00 plus $3.50 S&H

07-21-2004, 04:42 PM	#30
Don H. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Albuquerque,NM. Posts: 96 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	John when I called the Co. to order my set he told me that they do have the threaded hole in the back. He also told me that he sold some to one person and he sold them for $125.00 each at a gun show. This co. also has Krieghoff in brown and black also.

07-21-2004, 05:52 PM	#32
sambuscemi User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 192 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 4 Posts	Pete: So you know the seller from S. Kentucky is a former employee of FGS. I know him and know all at FGS. Thought you would like to know.

07-22-2004, 11:41 AM	#34
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Sam, Are you saying Chris Clark is no longer associated with FGS..thought the family link would last...? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-22-2004, 12:29 PM	#35
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Sam, I too am surprised that Ken is no longer at FGS!! I have spoken to him many times and he sounds like a right guy. Oh well, I guess anything is possible!

07-26-2004, 11:36 AM	#37
Don H. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Albuquerque,NM. Posts: 96 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	Just received the grips and they are not the same as the others. I have no idea who is making these.

07-26-2004, 04:21 PM	#38
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Don, Please post photos of the grips you just received so we can see the quality... if you need help with this, just ask. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-24-2004, 12:51 PM	#39
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	These alleged "Original" Black widow grips are back on ebay from the same seller in Kentucky... same description...same photo My two cents consists of two words: Caveat Emptor <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*