Black Grips on eBay

Luke · 11-09-2002, 02:42 PM

The black grips shown appear to be the soft plastic repros, but the bidding is up to $155.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...item=731824381

Do these seem authentic to anyone else?

Luke

policeluger · 11-09-2002, 02:45 PM

I am not into black plastic as it is not Weimar period, but it does not look good to me.

Pete Ebbink · 11-09-2002, 03:00 PM

Luke,

The BW grips looked like they could be authentic from the "poor" rear side photo shown. I was bidding for awhile, but decided to stop.

I have a nicer set of BW grips that I was hoping to save by using these BW grips when shooting from time to time...but I stopped bidding when the amount got above "chump change"...

Regards,

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Aaron · 11-09-2002, 05:55 PM

Just looking at the pics, I can't see anything wrong with them.

Frank · 11-09-2002, 07:00 PM

These grips are somewhat worn and a little dirty, but as far as I'm concerned they are legit!!

ToggleTop · 11-09-2002, 10:28 PM

I would not touch those grips with a 10 foot pole as they say in my neck of the woods. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

Edward Tinker · 11-10-2002, 12:02 AM

But why?

Do you have a feeling or is there something about them that shouts out to you?

George Anderson · 11-10-2002, 09:01 AM

I once knew a ten foot Pole. His name was Stan Kowalski and he played basketball.

policeluger · 11-10-2002, 12:31 PM

I have looked at these several time, it looks to me that some has tried to touch up the checkering? I could be way off here, but just not a good feeling.

Pete Ebbink · 11-10-2002, 01:39 PM

Here's another pair that have gone over $ 233.00 [img]eek.gif[/img] and the auction is still on-going :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...item=733726538

Guess that "marketing ploy" seems to be working...

Regards,

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Frank · 11-10-2002, 03:58 PM

Pete, the only difference between the two pair, is the second one is a bunch better quality. I have a rear view of that one and I believe it is legit also. Maybe that's one of the reasons why the so called Black Widow is selling for a higher price than the wood grip model. That, along with the fxo black plastic bottom magazine. The best I can tell the differential should be $200 to $250 based the going price of the grips and Black Bottom Magazines. It seems the actual differential is much higher. ?????? Don't know why [img]smile.gif[/img]

ToggleTop · 11-10-2002, 05:39 PM

Ed,
I see nothing in the description's that indicate either pair of the grips are original! For the prices being bid I would sure want to know if I was getting an original pair. I guess in my old age I am getting awful leary of some of the stuff being sold!

<img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

Edward Tinker · 11-10-2002, 08:14 PM

AAAAHHHH, esteemed Toggletop. Excellent catch!

I too am leery everytime that it does not state 3 day return, original or if it states RARE!

You are probably right and we'll watch for the fun.... <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

ToggleTop · 11-10-2002, 09:50 PM

Sir Edward,
I am not very esteemed, I am just a luger nut. I do get fascinated by watching some of the bidding frenzies on some of the stuff being sold. Just think, without these computers how uninformed we would be!
<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Pete Ebbink · 11-11-2002, 10:44 AM

Here is a nice inside view of authentic BW grips, that I think John Sabato had posted on the Forum, a few months back; thought it might help to compare with the grips now on auction :

Regards,

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Frank · 11-11-2002, 11:10 AM

Pete, I base my decisions on 1) the published data on the "originals" and 2) the grips I have that I know are "originals". It is conceiveable that there are good fakes out there, but those are goig to be the breaks!! Good old Waffenamt USA lives!!

John Sabato · 11-12-2002, 10:09 AM

To Frank, and the rest of you guys...

Comments edited after closer examination:

IMHO I pronounce these grips in the first auction as authentic... They do have the threaded holes upon close examination... but well used. I don't know if someone has tried to sharpen the checkering or not, but I doubt it. Bakelite is not like modern day plastics and has a high fiber content. when it is scraped with a sharp tool like a checkering chase tool, it tends to get fuzzy. I think these grips have been cleaned really harshly, but are certainly serviceable... I don't think I would have paid this much for them though... Maybe half of that.

Here is a closeup of the inside photo of th grips in the first auction that I have enlarged and sharpened the focus on... You can see the threaded holes and the tool marks that are similar to the grips on the old photo of mine that Pete posted.

The second auction grips look very nice... but without seeing the back I can't offer an opinion on their authenticity... I have requested a closeup of the inside of these grips from the seller.

G.T. · 11-12-2002, 07:19 PM

Ok Guys, here is the way I see it, I think we are giving the reproduced grips way to much credit... I have yet to see a grip made from bakolite (Sp.?) (thermo setting) that was not original... and, I have yet to see a grip made from thermo forming plastic that was! the real trick here, is to become familier with the different properties that are unique to each plastic, and gain a knowledge base that lets you make on the spot decisions... heres a real good first step! Take an original Black Widow grip...and try to make a fingernail mark on the back side! Your going to try for a long time... as they are hard as hell! This is the same stuff they made old phone receivers out of, and it is really tough stuff!
Lets hear from others how they tell...we all have our little pet tells... just like poker, that's the way I see it! Best to all...till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Marvin · 11-13-2002, 06:06 AM

G.T.,

You are correct about the repros not being made from a thermosetting plastic. The repors I have seen were made from injection molded plastic. One set was very good and I thought it may have been been made from ABS as it was tough, BUT, the fingernail trick you discussed showed that it was no a thermoset phenolic.

The grips on auction also appear to be original, but worn.

Marvin

John Sabato · 11-13-2002, 10:26 AM

Hey! Welcome back Marvin! Hope you can find the time to participate more frequently...

11-09-2002, 02:42 PM	#1
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Black Grips on eBay The black grips shown appear to be the soft plastic repros, but the bidding is up to $155. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...item=731824381 Do these seem authentic to anyone else? Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

11-09-2002, 10:28 PM	#6
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I would not touch those grips with a 10 foot pole as they say in my neck of the woods. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" /> __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

11-10-2002, 12:02 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	But why? Do you have a feeling or is there something about them that shouts out to you? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-10-2002, 05:39 PM	#12
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, I see nothing in the description's that indicate either pair of the grips are original! For the prices being bid I would sure want to know if I was getting an original pair. I guess in my old age I am getting awful leary of some of the stuff being sold! <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" /> __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

11-10-2002, 08:14 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	AAAAHHHH, esteemed Toggletop. Excellent catch! I too am leery everytime that it does not state 3 day return, original or if it states RARE! You are probably right and we'll watch for the fun.... <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-09-2002, 02:45 PM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I am not into black plastic as it is not Weimar period, but it does not look good to me.

11-09-2002, 03:00 PM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Luke, The BW grips looked like they could be authentic from the "poor" rear side photo shown. I was bidding for awhile, but decided to stop. I have a nicer set of BW grips that I was hoping to save by using these BW grips when shooting from time to time...but I stopped bidding when the amount got above "chump change"... Regards, Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

11-09-2002, 05:55 PM	#4
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Just looking at the pics, I can't see anything wrong with them.

11-09-2002, 07:00 PM	#5
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	These grips are somewhat worn and a little dirty, but as far as I'm concerned they are legit!!

11-10-2002, 09:01 AM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	I once knew a ten foot Pole. His name was Stan Kowalski and he played basketball.

11-10-2002, 12:31 PM	#9
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I have looked at these several time, it looks to me that some has tried to touch up the checkering? I could be way off here, but just not a good feeling.

11-10-2002, 01:39 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Here's another pair that have gone over $ 233.00 [img]eek.gif[/img] and the auction is still on-going : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...item=733726538 Guess that "marketing ploy" seems to be working... Regards, Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

11-10-2002, 03:58 PM	#11
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Pete, the only difference between the two pair, is the second one is a bunch better quality. I have a rear view of that one and I believe it is legit also. Maybe that's one of the reasons why the so called Black Widow is selling for a higher price than the wood grip model. That, along with the fxo black plastic bottom magazine. The best I can tell the differential should be $200 to $250 based the going price of the grips and Black Bottom Magazines. It seems the actual differential is much higher. ?????? Don't know why [img]smile.gif[/img]

11-10-2002, 09:50 PM	#14
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sir Edward, I am not very esteemed, I am just a luger nut. I do get fascinated by watching some of the bidding frenzies on some of the stuff being sold. Just think, without these computers how uninformed we would be! <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

11-11-2002, 10:44 AM	#15
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Here is a nice inside view of authentic BW grips, that I think John Sabato had posted on the Forum, a few months back; thought it might help to compare with the grips now on auction : Regards, Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

11-11-2002, 11:10 AM	#16
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Pete, I base my decisions on 1) the published data on the "originals" and 2) the grips I have that I know are "originals". It is conceiveable that there are good fakes out there, but those are goig to be the breaks!! Good old Waffenamt USA lives!!

11-12-2002, 10:09 AM	#17
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	To Frank, and the rest of you guys... Comments edited after closer examination: IMHO I pronounce these grips in the first auction as authentic... They do have the threaded holes upon close examination... but well used. I don't know if someone has tried to sharpen the checkering or not, but I doubt it. Bakelite is not like modern day plastics and has a high fiber content. when it is scraped with a sharp tool like a checkering chase tool, it tends to get fuzzy. I think these grips have been cleaned really harshly, but are certainly serviceable... I don't think I would have paid this much for them though... Maybe half of that. Here is a closeup of the inside photo of th grips in the first auction that I have enlarged and sharpened the focus on... You can see the threaded holes and the tool marks that are similar to the grips on the old photo of mine that Pete posted. The second auction grips look very nice... but without seeing the back I can't offer an opinion on their authenticity... I have requested a closeup of the inside of these grips from the seller. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-12-2002, 07:19 PM	#18
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	Ok Guys, here is the way I see it, I think we are giving the reproduced grips way to much credit... I have yet to see a grip made from bakolite (Sp.?) (thermo setting) that was not original... and, I have yet to see a grip made from thermo forming plastic that was! the real trick here, is to become familier with the different properties that are unique to each plastic, and gain a knowledge base that lets you make on the spot decisions... heres a real good first step! Take an original Black Widow grip...and try to make a fingernail mark on the back side! Your going to try for a long time... as they are hard as hell! This is the same stuff they made old phone receivers out of, and it is really tough stuff! Lets hear from others how they tell...we all have our little pet tells... just like poker, that's the way I see it! Best to all...till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

11-13-2002, 06:06 AM	#19
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	G.T., You are correct about the repros not being made from a thermosetting plastic. The repors I have seen were made from injection molded plastic. One set was very good and I thought it may have been been made from ABS as it was tough, BUT, the fingernail trick you discussed showed that it was no a thermoset phenolic. The grips on auction also appear to be original, but worn. Marvin

11-13-2002, 10:26 AM	#20
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Hey! Welcome back Marvin! Hope you can find the time to participate more frequently... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*