Exploded view of Interarms/Mauser 9mm

[hayhugh]

The only difference I have found so far between the Interarms/Mauser 9mm and regular luger parts is the main toggle pin. On a regular luger the toggle pin has a lip on the left side and the receiver is milled to accept the lip. On the Interarms luger there is no lip on the pin but a washer which may or may not have been pressed onto the end of the pin. The receiver is milled to accept the washer but it seems like a mickeymouse design. Does anyone have an exploded view of the Interarms/mauser luger you could post here or email as an attachment? Thank you, Hugh

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by hayhugh

On a regular luger the toggle pin has a lip on the left side and the receiver is milled to accept the lip. On the Interarms luger there is no lip on the pin but a washer which may or may not have been pressed onto the end of the pin.

I for one would be interested in seeing a pic of that, if you don't mind.

The grips are different also, as I believe you pointed out. I've read there are other differences (or 'simplifications') in manufacturing. I would be interested in knowing what they are as well.

[hayhugh]

The pin does not enter the hole because there is very slight burr on the end but it then leaves a space between the end of the pin and the receiver. I suppose the washer is to take up the slack. I almost lost the washer when I dissembled the gun for the 1st time as I was not looking for anything like that. When I started to clean up I saw and had to look to see where the washer was suppose to go.

[lfid]

I think the washer is likely the flange edge portion of the original axle pin, and that for some reason - maybe the pin diameter is too small and so the flange was taking the recoil impact, or maybe the recess for the axle flange was machined too small

the axle pin on most/all mauser parabellums 1970s issue is same as the typical P08 issue except that the flange diameter is a larger diameter similar to the 1916-17 navy lugers and the matching receiver axle recess is larger to match the pin

so it looks to me like what you have on your MP is an axle pin with flange fractured loose into a washer like part - and the burr on end of the pin is a piece of the original integral flange that remains with the pin

Ive seen one or two MP lugers with partial fractured flanges but never a washer effect like this one s

does your canon assembly show any signs of excess clearances?
or excessive wear from toggle barrels sliding upward on the frame recoil ramps ?

lugerdoc may have a replacement axle for your MP
Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302
Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

thanks for pictures
Bill

[lfid]

in case you dont have a copy yet ...
lots of MP info in the awesome book by
http://www.theparabellumisback.com/authors.htm
usa source :
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=18587
or
europe source :
http://www.lugerlp08.com/the%20artil...parabellum.htm
http://www.theparabellumisback.com/
http://www.theparabellumisback.com/order.htm

enjoy !
Bill

[hayhugh]

Yes, I already have that book , bought when I purchased the Mitchell Luger. No exploded view there for either gun.

[lfid]

seems like the phamplet booklet with MP on cover that came with these guns includes pictures of the major parts disassembly and also a parts list - perhaps someone has one they can check

is the inside ring of the washer crisp and smooth under magnify ?
slightly ragged would indicate sheared off of the axle pin

I have seen one ww2 P08 with all the flange edge sheared off like your MP - the owner showed a cor-bon 9mm ammo box with 10 rounds apparently fired in the same gun - on advice of a gun shop re luger needing hot ammo etc - this one had no pieces of flange left on the axle

thanks
Bill

[lfid]

re the Parabellum is Back book, these may help answer the washer question
p273 - picture of all MP parts laid out flat like used in the booklet
p274 - picture of standard MP axle pin with integral large flange ( best evidence )
p377 - picture of receiver with machined for large axle flange radius
p413 - picture of the axle pin assembled in rear of slide ( next best evidence )
the above all show one piece pin and flange

so still seems to me your MP somehow has a fractured original axle pin
maybe original pin was too long overall or bad metal or heavy power ammo or pin flange oversized or slide pin flange recess undersized or pin body undersized - seems like anything that puts actual recoil pressure on the edge of flange would fracture it

lugerdoc may have a NOS MP axle pin which seems you may need one

good luck !
Bill

[hayhugh]

Well Bill after looking at the end plate (washer) with a loupe there does seem to be a raged edge in the inter circle. So I can assume it did break off from the rest of the pin.

I have tried a toggle pin from a regular Luger and it does interchange length wise and the lip seems to be a little bit stronger - That might be the way to go. Going with a replacement I/M pin would seem to be asking for the same problem as I now have. You stated others have had this problem so it must be factory fault never corrected.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by hayhugh

I have tried a toggle pin from a regular Luger and it does interchange length wise and the lip seems to be a little bit stronger - That might be the way to go...

A good machinist familiar with turning small parts could make you a replacement out of drill rod or 4140 rod. There are a couple home machinists here on the forum who are perfectionists [which lets me out] and could correct the deficiencies of the OEM pin.

I kind of like the oversize flange. Maybe someone [Tom?] has a Navy pin with the big flange that would be a drop-in fix.

[Lugerdoc]

I do have original MP rear axels in stock @$40 each. These have a larger diameter flange than either the standard PO8 or the Navy ones. There are many difference in the Mauser Parabellum, due to the Swiss M29 redesign, from the standard PO8 including: long frame, receiver and barrel (so PO8 barrels not interchangeable), side plates & lever pin redesigned inside, Swiss model triggers not interchangeable with PO8, grip safety & grips different from all other lugers except the M29 Swiss, extractor and breech block beefed up and redesigned and locking bolt made from one piece, rather than having the hollow checkered circle tacked on. I believe that I may have an exploded view parts list from Interarms showing the description of all parts in both English and German, but not very useful in comparing designs to the standard PO8 parts. TH

[rhuff]

I have to think that perhaps you just got a defective toggle pin. If fired with "hot" ammo, that could contribute also. If it were me(I own a 06/73), I would opt for a new/correct toggle pin from Tom. I have fired my MP quite a bit, and so far, have seen no problems similar to yours.

[lfid]

yes, new oem Mauser mfg pin is very likely better choice than using standard P08 pin and likely much cheaper than a custom made pin and Lugerdoc price for new MP pin seems very reasonable

if you use a new MP pin or similiar copy, check that the flange sits flush to slide with the receiver pin flange recess and that the pin is at least as tight in the MP toggle as a P08 reference pin - ie about same amount of wobble for both pins in the toggle pin hole and also similar test for pin fit to receiver pin hole ( which should be tighter near perfect fit both sides receiver to the pin main body )

also check that flange diameter has some clearance with the diameter of the slide recess pin hole - ie should not be a tight fit - or about same clearance as P08 pin in a P08 slide

seems a P08 pin could also work, but you would lose some degree of safety as the larger diameter flange on end of the original MP pins provide some added assurance that the pin wont walk sideways during the recoil cycle

the later WW2 Mauser made lugers have a rear frame hump to provide similiar assurance of sideways pin walk control or worse yet the potential sideways walk and then flange end of pin grabs left frame rail on forward part of recoil cycle - as seems this grab must have happened somewhere earlier in time, perhaps from guns with very worn battered end of breechblock to the inside rear end of frame gun or overloaded/proofing ammo
most high usage worn weary military lugers (all non-MP) I have seen did have some degree of rear breechblock slap damage to the internal rear frame

other than yours here, I have never seen another case of a Mauser Parabellum 70s gun with a fractured pin
The example in my post above was for a WW2 mauser frame and receiver using a dwm breechblock/center link/rear toggle with unmarked P08 axle pin and likely broken by usage of cor-bon/heavy loaded ammo in this worn perhaps loose anyway mixture of mismatched mfg parts

so as far as I know, it is incorrect to say that this fractured pin problem is a known problem / Mauser factory fault. in fact, perhaps it is less likely with MP than older mfg lugers

good luck in fix quest !
Bill