Me back. GUN trip-info in Oklahoma (long)

Wombat · 05-15-2001, 09:47 PM

I was away out west this past weekend. Was in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and OKC for the last 5 days.

I know you were trying to get in touch with me Ted. I will be around Wednesday evening (after 6pm EST), will email you phone-#, etc..

While in Tulsa, I went to the JM Davis (name correct?) Gun Museum there. They host over 20,000 firearms, and other collections too! Yes, 20,000+ guns!!

I'm sure some of you have been there before, but here's a quick overview of some of the highlights. There was so much to see there, that I was actually getting sick of the site of more muzzleloading rifles by the end of the day. There was too much to see there. But, luckily I hit my niche of "autoloading" pistols quickly.

This was the first time in my life I actually got to see an original "Borschadt" (spell?) pre-luger pistol! It was a fantastic piece! They also had tons of other similiar guns too.

An entire wall of "Mauser" pistols of every variation was there too. Anything from Lugers, HSCs, p-38, etc was present. Also had a nice collection of Walthers, Nambus, Jap type 94 pistols, and other various pieces of the time period. too much to name.

Not too much in the way of lugers. But did have some prime examples of DWM pistols. They had some regualer 4"ers, and artillery models. THe best one being, a mint-condition DWM Artillery model, with Wooden Shoulder Stock, and a Snail-drum connected! it was beautiful!!!

They also had other submachine guns of the sort, and LMGs. All prime good examples. If anyone is ever out in the Tulsa area, I HIGHLY recommend seeing this massive place. Too much to say here. Anyone else been there before? add any insight?

After that, went to the 45th Division museum in OKC the next day. They were the US army division that broke into Munich, and Berlin first, on the US side. Took some pics of this museum. It's one of the best Military museums in the entire country!

They had all sorts of German and other ww2 country firearms on display too. Everything from the MG08, to the Luger. Nothing too special on the Luger selection here, but did have some great SMG's on display. mp28, mp40s, Lancaster, Sten, and some other various models. Besides having an excellent gun selection here (not quite the JM Davis size, but still excellent), they had lots of "hitler" raided items on display. I think they best was the photograph of a 45th Infantryman, laying in Hitler's Bed (munich apt.), reading a copy of Mein Kampf. They also had some personal items of his on display. Some were actually very interesting, and quite strange. But, we won't go into that here.

I got plenty of pictures of the 45th Div. Infantry museum, if anyone wants to see any on the net here. or via email. I didn't take pics at the Davis museum, cause the lighting was bad, and no flashes allowed.

Anyone want to add to this? I'm sure I am not the only one that has visited these wonderful places before....

Matt · 05-15-2001, 10:39 PM

Those are great museums Wombat!

J.M. Davis spent a lifetime collecting guns and probably had the largest privately-owned gun collection in the world. During the depression, he owned a hotel in Claremore. He often would take in a gun if someone didn't have cash for a room. My grandfather remembered visiting the hotel and he said the lobby walls were decorated with firearms! I've also heard he had rifles stacked like cordwood in unoccupied rooms. Before his death, he leased the collection to the state of Oklahoma for one-dollar on the condition it be made a public museum and no entry fee charged. He reportedly turned down numerous offers to buy the collection.

The 45th Infantry museum is also excellent. Remember Hitler's mirror that was on display? It was a creepy feeling looking at it. I almost expected to see Hitler's image staring back at me.

On a historical note, the original emblem of the 45th Division was a swastika. It was changed to the "Thunderbird" after Hitler came to power.

The only thing I don't like about museums is the items aren't for sale or trade. But I guess that doesn't matter, I couldn't afford them anyway!

Matt

Matt · 05-16-2001, 06:24 PM

Rick W.,

The swastika, or "broken cross" is an ancient symbol that is more than 2000 years old. It was a symbol used by Native Americans, hence its use by the 45th Infantry Division.

It also was considered a "good luck" sign. I have a "good luck" medallion from the early 1900s that has a swastika on it.

The Japanese Ninja warriors had a shuriken (martial-arts throwing star) in the shape of a swastika with the ends pointed.

Anyone else on the forum know any interesting tidbits about this now-hated symbol?

Matt

ViggoG · 05-16-2001, 11:12 PM

for what its worth.

I feel sorry for those who hate a symbol forgetting

that the symbol is an inanimate object and the hate

should go to those that misuse it.

It is this train of thinking that leads honest folk

into placing blame on the gun and not the gun using

criminal .

WAKE UP FOLKS GUNS and SYMBOLS are NOT BAD !

THOSE who MISUSE them ARE !!!!!

My thoughts only .

ViggoG

Marvin · 05-17-2001, 05:45 AM

Viggo,

Good Post and I agre with you 100%. When I was living in India a few years ago, I was surprised to see the Swastika all over Delhi. I asked some of the locals about this and it was one of there so called religious symbols that dated back hundreds of years. There was one strip shopping area (ha, ha, if you can call it a shopping area) that had them all over the place. I passed there everyday and I thought I was in Germany in the 1930s & 1940s. Anyway, the symbols are not at fault, just the people that use them. Take Russia for example, the Hammer & Sycle is a very good symbol for working together, but it is the worst form of government. Just my thoughts.

Marvin

Dok · 05-17-2001, 09:24 AM

of the Confederate Flag from State Flags like Georgia... absolutely ridiculous IMO, in our attempts to be politically correct, we totally lose sight of the obvious.

Matt · 05-17-2001, 05:59 PM

I agree guys,

When I said the swastika is a hated symbol, I was referring to the common perception of it, not my own views.

I've noticed that models of German airplanes no longer include the swastika tail fin decal as they did when I built them as a kid. That's absurd! If buy one of these models, I'll have to paint the swastikas on to make it authentic.

I did a "show and tell" of W.W. II memorabilia at a local elementary school today. When I asked the kids if they knew who created the swastika, they all responded it was Hitler, many of them referring to it as the "Nazi sign." They were surprised when I told them the history of it, and that it was once the symbol of our own 45th Infantry Division.

05-15-2001, 09:47 PM	#1
Wombat User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 89 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Me back. GUN trip-info in Oklahoma (long) I was away out west this past weekend. Was in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and OKC for the last 5 days. I know you were trying to get in touch with me Ted. I will be around Wednesday evening (after 6pm EST), will email you phone-#, etc.. While in Tulsa, I went to the JM Davis (name correct?) Gun Museum there. They host over 20,000 firearms, and other collections too! Yes, 20,000+ guns!! I'm sure some of you have been there before, but here's a quick overview of some of the highlights. There was so much to see there, that I was actually getting sick of the site of more muzzleloading rifles by the end of the day. There was too much to see there. But, luckily I hit my niche of "autoloading" pistols quickly. This was the first time in my life I actually got to see an original "Borschadt" (spell?) pre-luger pistol! It was a fantastic piece! They also had tons of other similiar guns too. An entire wall of "Mauser" pistols of every variation was there too. Anything from Lugers, HSCs, p-38, etc was present. Also had a nice collection of Walthers, Nambus, Jap type 94 pistols, and other various pieces of the time period. too much to name. Not too much in the way of lugers. But did have some prime examples of DWM pistols. They had some regualer 4"ers, and artillery models. THe best one being, a mint-condition DWM Artillery model, with Wooden Shoulder Stock, and a Snail-drum connected! it was beautiful!!! They also had other submachine guns of the sort, and LMGs. All prime good examples. If anyone is ever out in the Tulsa area, I HIGHLY recommend seeing this massive place. Too much to say here. Anyone else been there before? add any insight? After that, went to the 45th Division museum in OKC the next day. They were the US army division that broke into Munich, and Berlin first, on the US side. Took some pics of this museum. It's one of the best Military museums in the entire country! They had all sorts of German and other ww2 country firearms on display too. Everything from the MG08, to the Luger. Nothing too special on the Luger selection here, but did have some great SMG's on display. mp28, mp40s, Lancaster, Sten, and some other various models. Besides having an excellent gun selection here (not quite the JM Davis size, but still excellent), they had lots of "hitler" raided items on display. I think they best was the photograph of a 45th Infantryman, laying in Hitler's Bed (munich apt.), reading a copy of Mein Kampf. They also had some personal items of his on display. Some were actually very interesting, and quite strange. But, we won't go into that here. I got plenty of pictures of the 45th Div. Infantry museum, if anyone wants to see any on the net here. or via email. I didn't take pics at the Davis museum, cause the lighting was bad, and no flashes allowed. Anyone want to add to this? I'm sure I am not the only one that has visited these wonderful places before....

05-15-2001, 10:39 PM	#2
Matt User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 196 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Me back. GUN trip-info in Oklahoma (long) Those are great museums Wombat! J.M. Davis spent a lifetime collecting guns and probably had the largest privately-owned gun collection in the world. During the depression, he owned a hotel in Claremore. He often would take in a gun if someone didn't have cash for a room. My grandfather remembered visiting the hotel and he said the lobby walls were decorated with firearms! I've also heard he had rifles stacked like cordwood in unoccupied rooms. Before his death, he leased the collection to the state of Oklahoma for one-dollar on the condition it be made a public museum and no entry fee charged. He reportedly turned down numerous offers to buy the collection. The 45th Infantry museum is also excellent. Remember Hitler's mirror that was on display? It was a creepy feeling looking at it. I almost expected to see Hitler's image staring back at me. On a historical note, the original emblem of the 45th Division was a swastika. It was changed to the "Thunderbird" after Hitler came to power. The only thing I don't like about museums is the items aren't for sale or trade. But I guess that doesn't matter, I couldn't afford them anyway! Matt

05-16-2001, 06:24 PM	#3
Matt User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 196 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: symbols Rick W., The swastika, or "broken cross" is an ancient symbol that is more than 2000 years old. It was a symbol used by Native Americans, hence its use by the 45th Infantry Division. It also was considered a "good luck" sign. I have a "good luck" medallion from the early 1900s that has a swastika on it. The Japanese Ninja warriors had a shuriken (martial-arts throwing star) in the shape of a swastika with the ends pointed. Anyone else on the forum know any interesting tidbits about this now-hated symbol? Matt

05-16-2001, 11:12 PM	#4
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: symbols for what its worth. I feel sorry for those who hate a symbol forgetting that the symbol is an inanimate object and the hate should go to those that misuse it. It is this train of thinking that leads honest folk into placing blame on the gun and not the gun using criminal . WAKE UP FOLKS GUNS and SYMBOLS are NOT BAD ! THOSE who MISUSE them ARE !!!!! My thoughts only . ViggoG

05-17-2001, 05:45 AM	#5
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: symbols Viggo, Good Post and I agre with you 100%. When I was living in India a few years ago, I was surprised to see the Swastika all over Delhi. I asked some of the locals about this and it was one of there so called religious symbols that dated back hundreds of years. There was one strip shopping area (ha, ha, if you can call it a shopping area) that had them all over the place. I passed there everyday and I thought I was in Germany in the 1930s & 1940s. Anyway, the symbols are not at fault, just the people that use them. Take Russia for example, the Hammer & Sycle is a very good symbol for working together, but it is the worst form of government. Just my thoughts. Marvin

05-17-2001, 09:24 AM	#6
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Like the removal... of the Confederate Flag from State Flags like Georgia... absolutely ridiculous IMO, in our attempts to be politically correct, we totally lose sight of the obvious.

05-17-2001, 05:59 PM	#7
Matt User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 196 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Like the removal... I agree guys, When I said the swastika is a hated symbol, I was referring to the common perception of it, not my own views. I've noticed that models of German airplanes no longer include the swastika tail fin decal as they did when I built them as a kid. That's absurd! If buy one of these models, I'll have to paint the swastikas on to make it authentic. I did a "show and tell" of W.W. II memorabilia at a local elementary school today. When I asked the kids if they knew who created the swastika, they all responded it was Hitler, many of them referring to it as the "Nazi sign." They were surprised when I told them the history of it, and that it was once the symbol of our own 45th Infantry Division.