RIA's "1902 Carbine" - Page 2

cirelaw · 03-29-2013, 12:48 PM

Rock Island Auction has close to 180 lugers and accessories now listed! I understand their commissions are way high. Has anyone bought or sold a luger using their service? Is it a buyers or sellers environment!! Do they have any control over your asking price? Can you post a reserve? Would you use Gunbroker instead? Tks ~~~~Eric

Norme · 03-29-2013, 01:26 PM

The more I study R.I.A.'s description of this piece, the more convinced I am that they have acted in a most shameful manner. Ron Wood has described their description of this gun as being "carefully crafted to avoid any positive statement of authenticity", but it seems to me that they have made a serious effort to imply, just the opposite, that this carbine was "custom" made, under the personal supervision of George Luger himself, for presentation to a person of importance, presumable President Roosevelt.
No mention is made that the serial number and GL monogram are fake, yet consider this quote from their description:
"This pistol, having the unique serial number range and the special "GL" type monogram was more than likely developed for special presentation purposes".
A particular irony is the posting of Ralph Shattuck's guarantee of authenticity, under the heading "Our client's best interest is our primary concern".
Regards, Norm

saab-bob · 03-29-2013, 01:39 PM

Norm
I still don't understand where the Teddy Roosevelt connection comes from?
Even if it was a real presentation luger,why would it have a connection to a President?
Was this story attached to the gun from a previous owner,to give validity to the selling price ?
Similar to Louis Comfort Tiffany and the "Curse of the Hope Diamond" story?
Bob

cirelaw · 03-29-2013, 02:15 PM

in his Blue luger book!

cirelaw · 03-29-2013, 02:42 PM

I wrote to the President Roosevelts' home and museum veryfing weather the carbine is still there and if possible its serial number and maybe a picture. My major in History sure helps!~~~ Eric

Ron Wood · 03-29-2013, 02:55 PM

The case for TR's carbine is in the museum but the gun is long gone, whereabouts unknown. The imprint of the special rear tangent sight is clearly visible in the case lining.

cirelaw · 03-29-2013, 02:57 PM

Shucks!!!! I wonder if it was engraved!

Ben M. · 06-09-2013, 12:12 PM

too bad this man was duped.

FMF Squid · 06-30-2013, 10:05 PM

Gentlemen, once again a very informative thread. After reading this I had to go look at my piece of history to appreciate it even more.

Snaggletooth · 07-08-2013, 07:59 PM

All I can say is anyone purchasing anything from RIA had better examine it in person. Their descriptions are flowery at best and out right lies at worst. RIA is buyer beware!!

03-29-2013, 01:39 PM	#23
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Norm I still don't understand where the Teddy Roosevelt connection comes from? Even if it was a real presentation luger,why would it have a connection to a President? Was this story attached to the gun from a previous owner,to give validity to the selling price ? Similar to Louis Comfort Tiffany and the "Curse of the Hope Diamond" story? Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

03-29-2013, 02:15 PM	#24
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Fred Datig Adddressed This Very Issue in 1962 in his Blue luger book! Attached Thumbnails

03-29-2013, 02:55 PM	#26
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	The case for TR's carbine is in the museum but the gun is long gone, whereabouts unknown. The imprint of the special rear tangent sight is clearly visible in the case lining. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-29-2013, 12:48 PM	#21
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Rock Island Auction has close to 180 lugers and accessories now listed! I understand their commissions are way high. Has anyone bought or sold a luger using their service? Is it a buyers or sellers environment!! Do they have any control over your asking price? Can you post a reserve? Would you use Gunbroker instead? Tks ~~~~Eric

03-29-2013, 01:26 PM	#22
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	The more I study R.I.A.'s description of this piece, the more convinced I am that they have acted in a most shameful manner. Ron Wood has described their description of this gun as being "carefully crafted to avoid any positive statement of authenticity", but it seems to me that they have made a serious effort to imply, just the opposite, that this carbine was "custom" made, under the personal supervision of George Luger himself, for presentation to a person of importance, presumable President Roosevelt. No mention is made that the serial number and GL monogram are fake, yet consider this quote from their description: "This pistol, having the unique serial number range and the special "GL" type monogram was more than likely developed for special presentation purposes". A particular irony is the posting of Ralph Shattuck's guarantee of authenticity, under the heading "Our client's best interest is our primary concern". Regards, Norm

03-29-2013, 02:42 PM	#25
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I wrote to the President Roosevelts' home and museum veryfing weather the carbine is still there and if possible its serial number and maybe a picture. My major in History sure helps!~~~ Eric

03-29-2013, 02:57 PM	#27
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Shucks!!!! I wonder if it was engraved!

06-09-2013, 12:12 PM	#28
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 474 Thanks: 82 Thanked 117 Times in 79 Posts	too bad this man was duped.

06-30-2013, 10:05 PM	#29
FMF Squid User Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 6 Posts	Gentlemen, once again a very informative thread. After reading this I had to go look at my piece of history to appreciate it even more.

07-08-2013, 07:59 PM	#30
Snaggletooth New User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	All I can say is anyone purchasing anything from RIA had better examine it in person. Their descriptions are flowery at best and out right lies at worst. RIA is buyer beware!!