1906 Swiss Cross in shield

Lugers down under · 08-10-2005, 04:05 AM

Just arrived and as yet has not been introduced to the others in the collection my new 1906 Swiss cross in shield arrived from Simpsons for my birthday.

The holster, grease can, cleaning kit and spare mag all came from e-bay.

It kind of makes up a nice rig

Regards

mauro · 08-10-2005, 08:20 AM

Very nice gift for your birthday.
Well done.

the gunman · 08-10-2005, 10:14 AM

One "HELL" of of a birthday gift. Sure wish someone remembered my birthday like that.

John Sabato · 08-10-2005, 10:19 AM

If you can't be good to yourself, who will be?

Congrats on another fine rig Murray...

Coming to Washington DC again any time soon?

Pete Ebbink · 08-10-2005, 10:38 AM

Hi Murray,

What a great Cross/Shield ! Cannot get any better...!!!

1. Would you have a photo of the markings on the left side of the receiver ?

2. Can you give me an idea of serial number (i.e. 1245x or 139xx is okay...)

I am tracking the Cross/Shields with serial and variation of left-side receiver markings...

3. Is the closure stud on your holster (main flap) brass/copper ?

Thanks,

Pete...

Lugers down under · 08-10-2005, 01:52 PM

Hello Guys,
Glad you liked the birthday present. I got another Luger as well in the same package but my camera battery went flat and I cannot find the spare so I am charging up the camera.
Pete,
Sorry, no photo until later but:

1. Left hand side frame has the Geneva cross with the Volgelsang acceptance mark to the right of the Geneva cross. The reverse to the photo shown on page 110 of Vittorio Bobba's Parabellum.

2. The serial number is 13310 all matching numbers including both grips and many smaller parts such as the grip safety, safely lever.

3. The holster is marked Wmi JENNI
BERN
17
Main closure stud looks to be aluminium with a copper centre rivit and the spare mag pouch stud is the same.

I do have three other (all different) swiss holsters one of which I cannot identify.

I will be interested in your comments.
Regards

pisto · 08-10-2005, 02:27 PM

Congradulations - thatÃ?Â´s what IÃ?Â´m still hunting for!
what is the Holster saying?

Lugers down under · 08-10-2005, 06:00 PM

Got the camera working again,
Pete,
Here is the photo you asked for:

This one is a bit out of focus

Side view.

Here is a photo of what Jan gave me for my birthday.

Kind wishes
LDU

Imperial Arms · 08-10-2005, 06:36 PM

A very nice rig for a birthday present. The only comment I have is mentioning that the holster is too late (1917) for this M1906 pistol. You may wish to find one from the 1906-1906 period.

Happy belated Birthday,
Albert

Pete Ebbink · 08-10-2005, 09:32 PM

Thanks, Murray !

To add a bit to Albert's posting...from the tables in V. Bobba's 1st. luger book, your pistol was made in the 1911 time frame. Your holster is a bit later than that, but still so lovely to keep...

Pete Ebbink · 08-10-2005, 10:39 PM

Simpson ad...?

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...oducts_id=2391

Lugers down under · 08-10-2005, 11:34 PM

You are on to it Pete,
Thats the one.
Also, I have four different Swiss holsters but only two Swiss Lugers,
this latest Cross in shield and my pride and Joy my 1900 Cross in sun burst. I will post photos of all four holsters and you can decide what guns go with what holsters.

Lugers down under · 08-11-2005, 12:15 AM

Well here is what I have.

Details of markings of each from left to right.

First from left has the stamp O M E in a diamond on rear no other marks, this one has swivels on the strap rather than wire type clips. It has two belt loops/

Second from left has no marks whatsoever and has a different style of flap stiching to any thing I have seen in all the books and has one large belt loop about 2" wide tapering down to about 1 1/4" wide .

Third is marked J.BUTIKFER BERN 16 and has two belt loops

The fourth is the one earlier described which has the spare mag pouch on the top and two belt loops.The holster is marked Wmi JENNI BERN 17

Now what guns go in what holster and how many more Swiss lugers do I need to buy to fill them all up?

Oh! Albert, the birthday is today 11th August.

Big Norm · 08-12-2005, 01:04 AM

Pete,
My 'cross-in-shield' has the same markings as in Murrays, but in reverse order. The serial number is 12811.
Big Norm

Big Norm · 08-12-2005, 01:10 AM

Murray,
your ammunition box has my name (almost) on it and my birthday was July 31st. Hows about sending all your stuff to me?
Big Norm(a)

Armin · 08-12-2005, 11:11 AM

Murray and all the other Swiss experts,
this is a very beautiful Swiss 1900/06. When looking at photos of this special type of pistol pictures from the underside are very often missing. I would be very interested in seeing if the lock bolt is numbered to the pistol or not and how the serial number on the underside of the side plate is placed. I have had several pistols of that type in my hands. Some of them had the lock bolt numbered, some hadn't. On some side plates the serial number could be read from one side on others the side plate had to be turned just the other way round. On pistols with the lock bolt numbered the number on the side plate was always in line.
The Bobba book doesn't clarify that detail. Who can give some input.
Thanks, Armin.

Pete Ebbink · 08-12-2005, 11:12 AM

Hi Murray,

Given the fact that the two holster on the left may not have markings and not have the military acceptance stamp; that is..."cross/(letter)" (usually on the inside surface of the upper closure flap, I would think they are commercial holster good for any M1900 to M1906 commerical Swiss luger.

The two on the right with their 1911 and 1917 dates would fit the M1906 models...

I try to get a holster with the exact date the luger was made or maybe 1 year later...but that is just my preference. I use the serial number/date tables in Datig and Bobba to find out when a Swiss luger was made.

Hi Norm,

Thanks for the details on your M1906 cross/shield.

Lugers down under · 08-12-2005, 02:41 PM

Armid,
Your are very kind to refer to me as "a Swiss expert" as I only have two Swiss Lugers but certainly would like some more.
I only have two, a 1900 Swiss Military serial number 781 and the 1906 Military serial number 13310.
In the first case, the 1900, the side plate is numbered 81 on the underside. (bottom) and the toggle lock is numbered 81 on the end of the last toggle.
The 1906 Swiss has the side plate numbered in exactly the same place on the bottom with the number 10 and it has 310 on the end of the toggle lock.
I trust this information is of some interest,
Regards
Murray.

08-10-2005, 04:05 AM	#1
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	1906 Swiss Cross in shield Just arrived and as yet has not been introduced to the others in the collection my new 1906 Swiss cross in shield arrived from Simpsons for my birthday. The holster, grease can, cleaning kit and spare mag all came from e-bay. It kind of makes up a nice rig Regards __________________ Lugers down under

08-10-2005, 08:20 AM	#2
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Very nice gift for your birthday. Well done. __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

08-10-2005, 10:19 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	If you can't be good to yourself, who will be? Congrats on another fine rig Murray... Coming to Washington DC again any time soon? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-10-2005, 01:52 PM	#6
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Hello Guys, Glad you liked the birthday present. I got another Luger as well in the same package but my camera battery went flat and I cannot find the spare so I am charging up the camera. Pete, Sorry, no photo until later but: 1. Left hand side frame has the Geneva cross with the Volgelsang acceptance mark to the right of the Geneva cross. The reverse to the photo shown on page 110 of Vittorio Bobba's Parabellum. 2. The serial number is 13310 all matching numbers including both grips and many smaller parts such as the grip safety, safely lever. 3. The holster is marked Wmi JENNI BERN 17 Main closure stud looks to be aluminium with a copper centre rivit and the spare mag pouch stud is the same. I do have three other (all different) swiss holsters one of which I cannot identify. I will be interested in your comments. Regards __________________ Lugers down under

08-10-2005, 06:00 PM	#8
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Got the camera working again, Pete, Here is the photo you asked for: This one is a bit out of focus Side view. Here is a photo of what Jan gave me for my birthday. Kind wishes LDU __________________ Lugers down under

08-10-2005, 10:14 AM	#3
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	One "HELL" of of a birthday gift. Sure wish someone remembered my birthday like that.

08-10-2005, 10:38 AM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Murray, What a great Cross/Shield ! Cannot get any better...!!! 1. Would you have a photo of the markings on the left side of the receiver ? 2. Can you give me an idea of serial number (i.e. 1245x or 139xx is okay...) I am tracking the Cross/Shields with serial and variation of left-side receiver markings... 3. Is the closure stud on your holster (main flap) brass/copper ? Thanks, Pete...

08-10-2005, 02:27 PM	#7
pisto User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 228 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Congradulations - thatÃ?Â´s what IÃ?Â´m still hunting for! what is the Holster saying?

08-10-2005, 06:36 PM	#9
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	A very nice rig for a birthday present. The only comment I have is mentioning that the holster is too late (1917) for this M1906 pistol. You may wish to find one from the 1906-1906 period. Happy belated Birthday, Albert

08-10-2005, 09:32 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks, Murray ! To add a bit to Albert's posting...from the tables in V. Bobba's 1st. luger book, your pistol was made in the 1911 time frame. Your holster is a bit later than that, but still so lovely to keep...

08-10-2005, 10:39 PM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Simpson ad...? http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...oducts_id=2391

08-10-2005, 11:34 PM	#12
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	You are on to it Pete, Thats the one. Also, I have four different Swiss holsters but only two Swiss Lugers, this latest Cross in shield and my pride and Joy my 1900 Cross in sun burst. I will post photos of all four holsters and you can decide what guns go with what holsters. __________________ Lugers down under

08-11-2005, 12:15 AM	#13
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Well here is what I have. Details of markings of each from left to right. First from left has the stamp O M E in a diamond on rear no other marks, this one has swivels on the strap rather than wire type clips. It has two belt loops/ Second from left has no marks whatsoever and has a different style of flap stiching to any thing I have seen in all the books and has one large belt loop about 2" wide tapering down to about 1 1/4" wide . Third is marked J.BUTIKFER BERN 16 and has two belt loops The fourth is the one earlier described which has the spare mag pouch on the top and two belt loops.The holster is marked Wmi JENNI BERN 17 Now what guns go in what holster and how many more Swiss lugers do I need to buy to fill them all up? Oh! Albert, the birthday is today 11th August. __________________ Lugers down under

08-12-2005, 01:04 AM	#14
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Pete, My 'cross-in-shield' has the same markings as in Murrays, but in reverse order. The serial number is 12811. Big Norm

08-12-2005, 01:10 AM	#15
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Murray, your ammunition box has my name (almost) on it and my birthday was July 31st. Hows about sending all your stuff to me? Big Norm(a)

08-12-2005, 11:11 AM	#16
Armin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 6 Posts	Murray and all the other Swiss experts, this is a very beautiful Swiss 1900/06. When looking at photos of this special type of pistol pictures from the underside are very often missing. I would be very interested in seeing if the lock bolt is numbered to the pistol or not and how the serial number on the underside of the side plate is placed. I have had several pistols of that type in my hands. Some of them had the lock bolt numbered, some hadn't. On some side plates the serial number could be read from one side on others the side plate had to be turned just the other way round. On pistols with the lock bolt numbered the number on the side plate was always in line. The Bobba book doesn't clarify that detail. Who can give some input. Thanks, Armin.

08-12-2005, 11:12 AM	#17
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Murray, Given the fact that the two holster on the left may not have markings and not have the military acceptance stamp; that is..."cross/(letter)" (usually on the inside surface of the upper closure flap, I would think they are commercial holster good for any M1900 to M1906 commerical Swiss luger. The two on the right with their 1911 and 1917 dates would fit the M1906 models... I try to get a holster with the exact date the luger was made or maybe 1 year later...but that is just my preference. I use the serial number/date tables in Datig and Bobba to find out when a Swiss luger was made. Hi Norm, Thanks for the details on your M1906 cross/shield.

08-12-2005, 02:41 PM	#18
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Armid, Your are very kind to refer to me as "a Swiss expert" as I only have two Swiss Lugers but certainly would like some more. I only have two, a 1900 Swiss Military serial number 781 and the 1906 Military serial number 13310. In the first case, the 1900, the side plate is numbered 81 on the underside. (bottom) and the toggle lock is numbered 81 on the end of the last toggle. The 1906 Swiss has the side plate numbered in exactly the same place on the bottom with the number 10 and it has 310 on the end of the toggle lock. I trust this information is of some interest, Regards Murray. __________________ Lugers down under