Need some help for Luger's elder brother C96

berkmberk1 · 09-07-2014, 09:56 PM

Granted its not a Luger, but they share certain commonalities - a certain rarity, and difficulties finding talented professionals to get certain things done. If anyone will know, its someone here.

I recently picked up a C96 Wartime Commercial model. I do believe its restoreable to an extent. The frame, lock mechanism, and bolt match. The barrel extension doesn't. I'm going to reline it to shoot it, but here is the rub. I'd like to refinish it (its pretty much gone) but the underside of the barrel is damaged. The seller said it was pitting. However, what ever it WAS looks like someone took an rotary grinder to it. (see pic). I read some older posts here about filling pitting (not the Grand Canyon) with different forms of metal work/welding and I was wondering if anyone can refer me to someone who does this sort of thing on firearms. If that isn't viable, I guess a reference to a GOOD Smith that does draw filing might take a noticeable amount out before refinishing

alanint · 09-08-2014, 06:35 AM

Our own Thor might take this on, but this looks like severe heat damage, (as in a fire) and might have weakened the barrel to the point where it is unsafe to fire.

berkmberk1 · 09-08-2014, 08:27 AM

I don't think its fire damage. Its confined to the underside of the barrel in an area roughly 4" long x 1/2" wide. You don't even notice it unless you turn it over and look. It looks like it MAY have been severely rusted and it was removed mechanically quite some time ago, as even this bunged up area now blends perfectly with the patina of the weapon. As long as some of these old war horses lingered in forgotten drawers, trunks, tool boxes, it could have been laying on something that was perpetually damp....I don't know. But it doesn't look like heat to me. Unfortunately, photographs don't really represent 3D that well.

John Sabato · 09-08-2014, 09:35 AM

An alternative for a non-collectible gun would be to have the barrel cut off and a new barrel threaded into the stub... Sheepherder has done this on his personal gun, but doesn't offer a service to do this. At least it shows that the job is possible, and with appropriate polishing and careful sizing the joint between the new and old barrel will hardly be noticeable.

Now you just have to find a gunsmith who is good with his lathe to make the new barrel.

Sergio Natali · 09-08-2014, 02:59 PM

Michael

The barrel looks really in a bad state, but we don't know about al the rest. It's true that would be nice to have it properly restored but it's for you to consider if it's really worth. A decent C96 Wartime Commercial is not that rare.

sheepherder · 09-08-2014, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

An alternative for a non-collectible gun would be to have the barrel cut off and a new barrel threaded into the stub... Sheepherder has done this on his personal gun, but doesn't offer a service to do this. At least it shows that the job is possible, and with appropriate polishing and careful sizing the joint between the new and old barrel will hardly be noticeable.

Now you just have to find a gunsmith who is good with his lathe to make the new barrel.

Thank you so much!!!

Here's a scan from Nonte's book...The comment about the Luger barrel is misleading, but the rest is relevant.

berkmberk1 · 09-08-2014, 07:55 PM

I've heard of re-barreling thru other sources, but it seems that was some time back. Like you said - someone with the skills and tools did one for themselves and maybe a few others. I haven't found one on line yet. I'm still looking. That feature is such a no-brainer, I can't figure out why Mauser didn't manufacture it that way from the start. I wouldn't be surprised if I heard that the Broomhandle's design and materials are just not up to large doses of jacketed ammo at ~1450 fps when it comes to durability/longevity.. So many are just plain shot out. A replaceable barrel would have been great! I also looked at the bolt lock and wondered why they didn't design the barrel extension to take some sort of interlocking block from the left side also. That probably would have helped redistribute some of the damaging forces that bung up the slot and lock on the present design.

Anyway, I'm looking into a gentleman referred to as LugerMan. The examples of his work on his site are impressive. According to his email, he seems quite sure that if the weapon checks out okay, he can reline, fill and resurface my barrel, put it in good mechanical condition, and refinish it. I know it will probably be expensive, but this project is a one - off for me separate from my usual collecting. Besides, I got the piece for a GREAT price!

Anyone have work done by him?

Here's a couple of sample pics.

TheRomanhistorian · 09-08-2014, 09:16 PM

I've had Redman's Rifling (if memory serves) in Omak, WA reline one of my Broomhandles to 7.63 Mauser and he did a spiffy job though he has a 3-4 month turnaround as he's fairly busy (but came highly recommended).

I've also had one Broomhandle converted to 9mm with a relined bore by The Broom Closet in Starke, FL. I've heard they do refinishing as well but can't attest to that service. They were faster but I've heard that their service can sometimes be not quite as good as Redman's. Either way, both outfits are good people in my experience.

Best,

Michael

P.S. I wonder if the marks under the barrel were from someone grinding off an import mark or something? I've seen on some Broomhandles the importer information on that part of the barrel.

sheepherder · 09-08-2014, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berkmberk1

Anyway, I'm looking into a gentleman referred to as LugerMan. The examples of his work on his site are impressive.

Yeah, the pics of his carbines are really nice. Have you heard from him? Here's some contact info -

Best time to call 6PM-8PM EST Monday to Friday
Call: (304)-LugerMD
(304) 584-3763
Fax: 267-543-2112
Email: Eugene@LugerMan.com
Email: eugenegolubtsov@gmail.com

Shipping:
LugerMan Inc
Eugene Golubtsov
1408 Elkins Avenue
Levittown PA 19057

Web Site -

http://www.lugerman.com/index.html

Do a Search here under his name - Some good threads, with lotsa pics.

berkmberk1 · 09-08-2014, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRomanhistorian

P.S. I wonder if the marks under the barrel were from someone grinding off an import mark or something? I've seen on some Broomhandles the importer information on that part of the barrel.

I wondered about that also. But as I mentioned earlier (I think) that jumble under the barrel is a perfect match wear wise, and patina wise. It looks to have quite some age to it. I don't really known.

alanint · 09-09-2014, 07:00 AM

[QUOTE=sheepherder;259838]Yeah, the pics of his carbines are really nice. Have you heard from him? Here's some contact info -

[B][SIZE="1"]Best time to call 6PM-8PM EST Monday to Friday
Call: (304)-LugerMD
(304) 584-3763
Fax: 267-543-2112
Email: Eugene@LugerMan.com
Email: eugenegolubtsov@gmail.com

Shipping:
LugerMan Inc
Eugene Golubtsov
1408 Elkins Avenue
Levittown PA 19057

While Eugene is a talented craftsman, be prepared to wait up to a year or more to get your pistol back. Ask Thor here on our sight if this is something he would take on insteasd.

09-07-2014, 09:56 PM	#1
berkmberk1 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Springfield, IL Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 4 Posts	Need some help for Luger's elder brother C96 Granted its not a Luger, but they share certain commonalities - a certain rarity, and difficulties finding talented professionals to get certain things done. If anyone will know, its someone here. I recently picked up a C96 Wartime Commercial model. I do believe its restoreable to an extent. The frame, lock mechanism, and bolt match. The barrel extension doesn't. I'm going to reline it to shoot it, but here is the rub. I'd like to refinish it (its pretty much gone) but the underside of the barrel is damaged. The seller said it was pitting. However, what ever it WAS looks like someone took an rotary grinder to it. (see pic). I read some older posts here about filling pitting (not the Grand Canyon) with different forms of metal work/welding and I was wondering if anyone can refer me to someone who does this sort of thing on firearms. If that isn't viable, I guess a reference to a GOOD Smith that does draw filing might take a noticeable amount out before refinishing Attached Images __________________ Michael D. Berk SFC, USA Ret.

09-08-2014, 08:27 AM	#3
berkmberk1 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Springfield, IL Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 4 Posts	I don't think its fire damage. Its confined to the underside of the barrel in an area roughly 4" long x 1/2" wide. You don't even notice it unless you turn it over and look. It looks like it MAY have been severely rusted and it was removed mechanically quite some time ago, as even this bunged up area now blends perfectly with the patina of the weapon. As long as some of these old war horses lingered in forgotten drawers, trunks, tool boxes, it could have been laying on something that was perpetually damp....I don't know. But it doesn't look like heat to me. Unfortunately, photographs don't really represent 3D that well. __________________ Michael D. Berk SFC, USA Ret.

09-08-2014, 09:35 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	An alternative for a non-collectible gun would be to have the barrel cut off and a new barrel threaded into the stub... Sheepherder has done this on his personal gun, but doesn't offer a service to do this. At least it shows that the job is possible, and with appropriate polishing and careful sizing the joint between the new and old barrel will hardly be noticeable. Now you just have to find a gunsmith who is good with his lathe to make the new barrel. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-08-2014, 02:59 PM	#5
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Michael The barrel looks really in a bad state, but we don't know about al the rest. It's true that would be nice to have it properly restored but it's for you to consider if it's really worth. A decent C96 Wartime Commercial is not that rare. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

09-08-2014, 07:55 PM	#7
berkmberk1 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Springfield, IL Posts: 49 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 4 Posts	I've heard of re-barreling thru other sources, but it seems that was some time back. Like you said - someone with the skills and tools did one for themselves and maybe a few others. I haven't found one on line yet. I'm still looking. That feature is such a no-brainer, I can't figure out why Mauser didn't manufacture it that way from the start. I wouldn't be surprised if I heard that the Broomhandle's design and materials are just not up to large doses of jacketed ammo at ~1450 fps when it comes to durability/longevity.. So many are just plain shot out. A replaceable barrel would have been great! I also looked at the bolt lock and wondered why they didn't design the barrel extension to take some sort of interlocking block from the left side also. That probably would have helped redistribute some of the damaging forces that bung up the slot and lock on the present design. Anyway, I'm looking into a gentleman referred to as LugerMan. The examples of his work on his site are impressive. According to his email, he seems quite sure that if the weapon checks out okay, he can reline, fill and resurface my barrel, put it in good mechanical condition, and refinish it. I know it will probably be expensive, but this project is a one - off for me separate from my usual collecting. Besides, I got the piece for a GREAT price! Anyone have work done by him? Here's a couple of sample pics. Attached Images __________________ Michael D. Berk SFC, USA Ret.

09-08-2014, 06:35 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Our own Thor might take this on, but this looks like severe heat damage, (as in a fire) and might have weakened the barrel to the point where it is unsafe to fire.

09-08-2014, 09:16 PM	#8
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	I've had Redman's Rifling (if memory serves) in Omak, WA reline one of my Broomhandles to 7.63 Mauser and he did a spiffy job though he has a 3-4 month turnaround as he's fairly busy (but came highly recommended). I've also had one Broomhandle converted to 9mm with a relined bore by The Broom Closet in Starke, FL. I've heard they do refinishing as well but can't attest to that service. They were faster but I've heard that their service can sometimes be not quite as good as Redman's. Either way, both outfits are good people in my experience. Best, Michael P.S. I wonder if the marks under the barrel were from someone grinding off an import mark or something? I've seen on some Broomhandles the importer information on that part of the barrel. __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers Last edited by TheRomanhistorian; 09-08-2014 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Post-script added.

09-09-2014, 07:00 AM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	[QUOTE=sheepherder;259838]Yeah, the pics of his carbines are really nice. Have you heard from him? Here's some contact info - [B][SIZE="1"]Best time to call 6PM-8PM EST Monday to Friday Call: (304)-LugerMD (304) 584-3763 Fax: 267-543-2112 Email: Eugene@LugerMan.com Email: eugenegolubtsov@gmail.com Shipping: LugerMan Inc Eugene Golubtsov 1408 Elkins Avenue Levittown PA 19057 While Eugene is a talented craftsman, be prepared to wait up to a year or more to get your pistol back. Ask Thor here on our sight if this is something he would take on insteasd.